Merry Fisher 805

[wp1234]

Have just carried out an engine survey on a MF 805 and have found out that a lot of salt water has been lying in the bilges resulting in some corrosion under the engine block / sump.The water seems to have come into the engine space via hull side air vents .Any other 805 owners have this problem ?

 

[AHoy2]

I found about two bucketfulls of sea water in the engine bilge area after the rather lumpy trip from Brixham to Poole recently, the sea was partly on the beam. There was no sign of bilge water prior to that trip or since but it had me checking all sea water pipes and fittings suspecting a leak when the engine was running - nothing found. There is no bilge drain from the engine area and apparently no water drains on the air vent tubes. I was intending to make checks with Jenneau.

Getting close to ownership?

AHoy.

 

[Nautorius]

Some water will always get in, however there should be a float pump to get rid of it! Is there a bilge pump?

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[AHoy2]

[ QUOTE ]
Some water will always get in, however there should be a float pump to get rid of it! Is there a bilge pump?

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 2 bilge pumps, but the engine area bilge is separated from the main bilge and does not have its' own pump - strange logic, possibly intended to keep bilge water away from the engine assuming none enters directly to that area.

 

[pissativlypossed]

The two compartments are kept apart so that in the event of an oil leak contaminated water will not be pumped overboard. A big "NO NO" as far as the EA are concerned.
We had exactly the same problem on our 805 and to a lesser extent on our Prestige 36.

 

[AHoy2]

[ QUOTE ]
--- in the event of an oil leak contaminated water will not be pumped overboard ----

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the insight.

The intention seems good, although not many other boats seem to have the same philosophy. Would have thought bunded fuel and hydraulic tanks would be more important and address a greater risk in that respect. If that is the design intention it's a pity more thought wasn't put into keeping sea water out as human nature (mine anyway) means in a heavy sea the engine gets priority and water will be sent overboard complete with contaminants anyway /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[simmy]

Hi All,

We just bought an 805 which we collected from Chichester Marina last Friday. Having stayed on it for 2 days we were really pleased until we finally braved the F5 gale and headed for the Solent. Deciding the heavy beam sea was too much we returned to our berth in Hayling Island and found the bilge, beneath the engine, full of water and oil!!

On investigation and a conversation with the previous owner, the oil is the result of a spillage that they thought they had cleared up (At least visibly) I checked that the engine oil was still full). The water basically "Picked up" the oil from the hidden areas beneath the engine. Having been through everything I could not find the source of the water ingress - and now assume from this post it is due to the air inlets????

Can anyone suggest a way of clearing this out, or recommend a company that can do it?

Also, I can see what appears to be a "Tube" in the forward bow thruster locker - Does this link to the engine bilge? I ask as following our little trip water appeared at the bottom of this compartment too!

 

[Philiz]

Hi Wyn

Might you be getting another 805 then?

I have heard of this problem on the 805 types if you're getting a good sized sea, beam on. Probably not much of a problem on a regularly used boat as the bit of water will move about and probably be evaporated by the heat from the engine. Did you never get any water in your previous 805? I've had a look in the bilges of a few 805's and only seen a very small amount of water in any of them.

 

[PaulGooch]

The bilge pump arrangement on the 805 is pi55 poor in my opinion, and i'm an 805 owner. Both the manual and electric pumps pick the water up from the same place, a small sump in the lazarette locker, make that a very small sump, probably doesn't hold more than five litres. The electric pump is not automatic and there is no pump in the engine compartment. There is a gauze type filter fitted in a compartment in the lazarette, this compartment runs beneath the starboard side cabin floor, underneath the sink and fridge. It contains the potable water tank, accumulator, filter and pump as well as pumps and filters for the bilge and shower. The filter will block very easily, make the electric pump unusable and is a pig to get to and clean. I fitted another filter to mine, easily accessible in the locker.

The lower inside of the hull is fitted with a liner, for want of a better word. This liner covers the lazarette locker and engine compartment. Presumably Jeanneau thought it would be bad if a leak were to fill the void between the hull and liner, so they cut four holes, approx 2" dia under the engine and one approx 4" in the rear of the lazarette. I again presume these are primarily designed to allow a water leak to get into the locker where it would run to the sump, allowing the bilge pump to pump it out. These holes do cause some other odd effects though.

Any water getting into the locker drains into the sump, but as the sump is very small it soon overflows into the engine compartment through where the prop shaft runs. Left unchecked it would fill the engine compartment by 2 or 3 inches and then exit via the four holes under the engine, filling the hull void until it escaped back into the locker via the 4" hole.

Water entering the engine compartment will fill the compartment until it over flows through the four holes, filling the hull void and again entering the locker via the 4" hole. Depending whether the boat is planing at the time or not, water may also enter the locker through where the prop shaft runs and fill the sump. Water may enter the engine compartment via the vents, in extreme conditions although i have never experienced more than a litre or so of water on one or two occasions. It can also get into the compartment if the seals in the raw water pump leak, i have had this. Point of interest, a tenner at the local bearing supplier acquired both of the bearings and seals and returned the pump to as new condition.

Any water that has entered the void between the liner and hull cannot fully escape. Some will enter the locker when the boat climbs onto the plane, but not all of it. Left in there, small amounts will get out for a while, either into the engine compartment or the locker, depending on conditions. I dare say this is what has happened with Simmys boat and he's now got the mess from the previous owners oil spill to deal with. When i rebuilt my leaky raw water pump i spilled a tiny amount of oil when i removed the pump. I tipped a little degreaser in and washed the engine down with a hose and gave the compartment a spring clean. I threw a couple or three buckets of soapy water here and there and everything was looking very clean, but what i didn't realise was the dirty water was escaping into the void through the holes beneath the engine. These holes are not clearly visible and i had no idea they were there. Oblivious to the problem, i pumped the slightly dirty water out with a portable bilge pump and drive everything off with a mop. Luvly jubly, all spick and span we nipped off down the river to make sure everything was ok.

Oh dear, lifted the engine compartment cover and there was lots of water in there. After some investigations, it turns out that as soon as the boat climbs onto the plane the water in the void enters the lazarette vis the 4" hole, then when you drop off the plane it runs forward in the locker, filling the sump and overflowing into the engine compartment.

In my opinion there should be an auto pump fitted at the front of the engine compartment. This isn't necessarily the first place water would gather, but it's where it will end up when the sump overflows, unless the boat is on the plane. If it's on the plane any water will be at the back of the lazarette and won't be reached by either bilge pump.

So, in Simmys case, here's what i'd do. Get a new bilge pump ready to fit in the engine compartment. Throw a few buckets of soapy water into the engine compartment, use soap powder not washing up liquid or you'll never find the engine again in the bubbles Fill the engine compartment with a hose, allowing the water to overflow into the void and subsequently into the locker to the bilge pump sump. At this point, turn the pump on. Keep the hose and pump running until you've flushed the void though to get rid of any old oil from the previous owners spill. When you've got as much out as you can with the bilge pump, use the new one you bought to empty the engine compartment and the as much from the void between the hull and liner as possible, through the 4" hole in the locker. You will now have to take the boat out an put it on the plane, with the new bilge pump poked into the 4" hole in the locker. Get out as much as you can, then use a sponge to remove the last little bit, whilst still on the plane.

I'm assuming here that there aren't gallons of oil in the void and you won't be wiping out the wildlife for miles around. If you can't nicely flush it all where you moor, you'll have to do it at sea, using the new bilge pump to pump the initial water into the engine compartment. Once you have finished, you can mount the new pump in the engine compartment

 

[simmy]

Paul,

That explains a lot! It sounds like I have a lot to learn!

I have purchased some "Oil Only" socks which apparently will take out 99% of the hydrocarbons from the sea water in my engine bilge. There is a reasonable amount of oil in there from the looks of things maybe as much as a litre. I think I will try to remove as much of this as I can to start with, I just hope that it is not stuck in the liner otherwise it will be impossible to get rid of!

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question but how do I access the lazerete locker? My instruction booklet is in French and the only diagrams are schematics for the water and electrical systems!

I have a new automatic bilge pump that I bought for my last boat but was then able to repair the existing one! Would you suggest fitting a new exit point for the new bilge pump?

Many thanks for the help!!!

 

[PaulGooch]

You're obviously right to remove as much oil as possible before you flush anything through the bilge pump. My case was a little different as i only spilled an egg cup of oil. The main issue was removing all the water i inadvertently got between the liner and hull when i washed the engine compartment out. It sounds like the previous owner of your boat made the same mistake as me, he washed everything into the void, i'm guessing he didn't get everything out from the void and this is mostly what you now have in y our engine compartment. It wasn't immediately obvious what had happened until i found the holes under the engine. After a good wash through last year, i've never had another problem with oil/water in the engine compartment <touch wood again>.

The lazarette locker is the large locker beneath the cockpit (very rear of the boat. You'll see the 4" hole at the rear of the locker, starboard side. At the front of the locker, starboard side again, you'll see a panel screwed on with two screws, behind this is the potable water tank, pump, accumulator and filter, along with pumps and filters for the bilge and shower pumps. Awkward to get at, but i'd suggest you give all the filters a clean, they just unscrew and then rinse the gauzes. I found using the bilge pump very quickly blocked it's filter as any bits of dirt in the locker get washed into the sump and picked up by the pump. Ordinarily not an issue, as i can't remember the last time we had any water ingress. But, the filter blocked twice while i was washing through the engine compartment so i envisaged that it had the potential to cause a serious problem if the bilge pump was ever used in an emergency. I fitted one of these in the locker, just after where the bilge pump outlet exits the sump :

http://www.force4.co.uk/873/Jabsco-...google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=pid873

It's the same as the one in the compartment, but should stop any debris from reaching that one and blocking it. You could of course move the one from the compartment to the locker, but fitting a new one seemed easier than crawling around.

You have the choice of fitting a new through hull outlet for the auto pump or using a Y connector. I have to confess to not having gotten around to fitting the auto pump yet, but i think i'll add an extra outlet. That way, if there was ever a major leak you could run both pumps and get rid of the water quicker. You should have a couple of switch blanks at the helm to fit an On-Off-On switch for the auto pump. The switches that you have are Carling with Contura I tops. Best place to get what you need is http://www.axoncomponents.com/content/view/19/86/

 

[simmy]

Thanks Paul, I am with you now!

Ok, I now have a plan and it looks like it will be a weekend of maintenance rather than cruising or fishing this weekend!

I have ordered a manual (Hand Held) bilge pump which allows you to add long lengths of hose either side so this should help me deal with the water within the 4" hole in the lazerete sufficiently. Sorting this out will definately be my priority!

When we were out I felt that the bow was far to low in the water and we were suffering from a lot of water crashing over the front. I noted a small dribble of water coming in at the front of the main cabin beneath the windlass. I am aware of some damage to the pan of the anchor locker through the survey we had (It appears that the heavy chain crashing onto the GRP surface has fractured it). Someone has attempted to repair it with mastic but it is obviously not working. One thing that I found strange was that the anchor locker virtually filled with water as a result of the sea coming over the bow and the drain tube (Which for some reason is not at the bottom of the locker but approx 1" above it) simply doesn't cope. I was thinking of getting this drain hole professionally widened to help relieve the weight of the water in the anchor locker. Have you noticed this with yours?

There is also an issue with the trim tabs which doesn't help the situation above, they have been fitted in reverse (Apparently by the original vender Southern Motorboats) and one of them is stuck. I believe I have narrowed this down to a dodgy wire now though.

Having said all this, my wife and my children absolutely love the boat and I just want to get her "Ship Shape" so that we can enjoy the summer on her (Assuming we get one this year!).

Thank you so much for your help

Cheers

Craig

 

[AHoy2]

On my 805 the shower waste pump was the same model as the main bilge pump and the pick-up can easily be diverted to the engine bay/forward bilge either as a permanent or temporary arrangement. Just add a second switch in parallel with the shower waste switch and you have an alternative solution.

AHoy2.

 

[PaulGooch]

On my 805 the shower waste pump was the same model as the main bilge pump and the pick-up can easily be diverted to the engine bay/forward bilge either as a permanent or temporary arrangement. Just add a second switch in parallel with the shower waste switch and you have an alternative solution.

AHoy2.

That's a good idea, never thought of that. At the very least, a pipe made up to fit the shower pickup serves as a secondary pump in an emergency.

 

[PaulGooch]

Craig, not noticed a problem with the chain locker filling too much. The locker floor should be an easy enough fix. Give it a good rub down with some 120 grit wet and dry and wipe it out with some acetone or automotive panel wipe. Depending on the extent of the damage, tip some GRP resin into the bottom of the locker and add a layer or two of matting, if the damage looks like it needs it. Use enough resin to cover the matting and leave a reasonably smooth surface. When it's dry, tip some flowcoat (gelcoat) in and brush it around, use enough to flow out and leave a decent finish. Make sure the flowcoat has wax added to it, or add some wax in styrene.

If you have an all chain anchoring system, add some rope to the chain to protect the locker bottom. Also carefully check the windlass mounting box in the locker, might be worth running a good bead of sikaflex (or automotive "Tiger Seal") around it.

When you're running at displacement speeds the bow does sit a little low and will often throw water over the bow in a chop, but i don't recall having any huge amounts coming over the bow and into the chain locker. If the trim tab was stuck down, this could account for it. Have a lot of water in the engine compartment and between the hull and liner also wouldn't help. Mine doesn't have trim tabs and from everything i've read, they are pretty unusual on the 805. She'll always sit a little bow high on the plane, but i've always understood this to be a characteristic of the semi-planning hull.

 

[simmy]

Good Idea regarding the shower pump

The GRP repair sounds quite straight forward as well - There is a good guy based in Sparkes Marina for Glass Fibre repairs etc.... Micky Frith, I have used him before and he is very good! I should be able to get the materials from him hopefully.

My 805 definately does not come up at the front when on the plane, compared with my 625 (which I just sold) which would stand very high when under serious power. I am really hoping that the Trim Tabs are to blame as the one that is stuck is at 40% according to the meter. This is a really good opportunity as I see it for me to get to understand the workings of my new boat - always handy if you come across a problem when out at sea!

Thanks again!

Craig

 

[PaulGooch]

When i first got mine i wasn't sure if she was riding a little high on the bow when planing, so i looked around the net and the general consensus was that the 805 didn't need trim tabs. We quickly got used to the ride and don't even notice now. I've recently seen a couple of other 805's on the plane and they sit exactly the same as mine. AHoy2's boat looks to sit the same as mine too, going by his avatar pic. There's a pic of mine below, cruising at around 16-18 knots, same pic as my avatar, just bigger.

Once you get the teething problems out of the way, i'm sure you'll be very happy with the boat. We certainly are happy with ours. Second pic is a more recent one, taken after fitting the radar and moving the VHF antenna to the rear and adding a 2nd one for AIS etc

 

[simmy]

It does seem to be the case that trim tabs are not really needed on these boats from the articles and forums that I have read through. Hopefully i will get them sorted out this weekend, although I may need to replace one of the rams which will mean taking her out of the water (which will have to wait!).

My wife and I have been looking at the 805 and the 925 for the last 5 years, ever since we got the 625. We settled on the 805 as she is small enough for me to handle if I want to go fishing alone but is still a perfect weekend boat for us to explore new places as a family. Staying on her last weekend was a great experience, the kids loved it!

When we have all our ducks in a row we intend to take her over to France and the Channel Islands, we a couple who used to take their 805 across on a regular basis!

The teething troubles are really, in my mind a good thing as I said before. It is the best way of familiarising yourself with a boat!

Your boat looks great! Have you had her long?

Cheers

Craig

 

[Kawasaki]

Fitted some 'QL' trim tabs (leccy ones) to an 805 last year
As the Helm is on the starboard side and passengers/crew are usually positioned port side the tabs help to trim the vessel in this respect
Also they help with the sometime 'bow high' attitude etc.
Worthwhile imho

 

[MrCramp]

I don't know any boat mentioned as I sail but one of the most usefull items on my boat is an old fashioned mop and mop bucket. Very usefull for getting water out of places without pumping or getting your hands wet/contaminated.