mercruiser 300HP D-Tronic WRONG ECM

[wetspot]

For almost 2 whole years I spent trying to get my Mercruiser D-Tronic engine to run right and it turns out that Cummins Mercruiser supplied me with not one but two wrong ECM’s, they supplied me with the 250hp ECM’s which are completely different engines, my question is could this have damaged my engine in any way? As the boat was tested under load on numerous occasions as it would not rev past 2500rpm (under load), the engine clock had 10 hours on it, by the time I found out it was in fact the wrong ECM, Cummins Mercruiser are trying to wriggle out of any liability, the Wrong ECM’s are currently being checked at supplier level or so I am led to believe

 

[volvopaul]

Seems CM are getting a real slating on here and so they should seems they have no customer relations art at all, cant believe they have the wrong ECU fitted to there engines I would be giving there stand a visit at the boat show preferably where they are a few people around, sounds like its the only way to get things on the move.

People moan about volvo but at least there is an ear that will listen to each case, I wonder how long they will be around for? I wonder how sealine get on with them after there new engines have been around for a while, what level of customer service will they be able to give if sealine sell a lot of boats with there product in, will they be able to give the same back up as volvo??? If the service level is poor it will reflect on sealine as the builder first.

Lets see.

 

[Whitelighter]

Are yours the 300Hp V8 Diesels?

 

[wetspot]

no, mines the 4.2L straight 6.

as for customer service, after almost 2 years I was at my witts end trying to get the engine to work, I ended up trying to get the Customer support director (Europe) to help (as nobody in the UK had a clue), he advised me to contact the nearest service centre which was in Windermere (my boat is in fleetwood Lancs) they said "were too busy and you to far away !!!" then spoke to Conwy service centre, They wanted me to take the Cruiser to them?? how ? on a flat bed at a cost of £500 each way??, further to that Beware, CMD have no idea about the legacy VM block which got re badged as the CMD 300es 320es, they haven't a clue, I would be very warey about buying from CMD in the future unless you have a service centre on your doorstep.

 

[Latestarter1]

VM Woes

Wetspot,

You are going after CMD for suppying wrong part # ECM??

"Looks like I found the problem!!

not only was I supplied a dodgy ECM by EP Barrus UK (UK Mercruiser importer at the time) but also a dodgy MAP/AIT sensor as well.
It all makes sense now, these parts were only delivered the week Barrus Ceased with the diesels as Cummins took over, and it looks like I was sent the faulty parts they had left on the shelf!

It turns out that the ECM was corrupt and although it stored the faults and worked as it should, it did not display them, and as it did not display them you did not know they were there, also this became apparent when the ECM was tried on a diferent engine, giving the same result 2500rpm !, the reason for this is the ECM was still carrying the fault code from my engine but was not visible, and thus could not be removed, as soon as I fitted the 250hp ECM , Bang ! the fault came up, Faulty MAP Code , most people can handle one failed component, but not two, especialy when they were both supplied brand new by the Dealer!!
But I am not out of the woods yet, still need a 300hp ECM and a new MAP sensor,
I will keep you all informed"

Let me get this right, by your own admission you purchased an incomplete engine cheaply from Barrus I assume with no warranty, repaired it yourself, never had an installation review of the vessel carried out. The deal turned sour now you are screaming blue murder.

I have a pal with a Mecruiser 300 EI in a Doral, as you know I am not a lover of the VM product at all. However when some issues that arose with this engine which I identified as due to water in the fuel which we fixed. But not before it was confirmed that CMD Swanwick was holding all parts for the engine including ECM, even though they had never sold a single motor of this type. Peter in the parts department could not have been more helpful. I am curious about the 250 Hp issue as this engine was the mechanical i.e 4.2-MI, only the 4.2 EI was 300 was quasi electronic??

As your motor came out of redundant Barrus stock are you certain that your serial number is calling up the correct ECM part # when it is put into the system. Knowing the history I cannot believe a dealer of any colour or flavour would want to become involved.

Do you not think you are partly to blame for digging the hole you are in?

 

[lovezoo]

Let me get this right, by your own admission you purchased an incomplete engine cheaply from Barrus I assume with no warranty, repaired it yourself, never had an installation review of the vessel carried out. The deal turned sour now you are screaming blue murder.

As I understand this from what Wetspot said in the past, he bought the complete engine secondhand from a CMD dealer and it has never worked properly. When he replaced the ECU they sent him the wrong one. Barrus have done nothing to help, because frankly they couldn´t give a stuff about end users (from my own experience).

Not suprising he is angry...

 

[wetspot]

Wetspot,




Let me get this right, by your own admission you purchased an incomplete engine cheaply from Barrus I assume with no warranty, repaired it yourself, never had an installation review of the vessel carried out. The deal turned sour now you are screaming blue murder.

Do you not think you are partly to blame for digging the hole you are in?

No, I purchassed a complete secondhand engine from a Mercruiser dealer, the engine was supplied with all new ancillaries including a brand new Bravo 3 diesel X and a brand new ECM, What you dont understand is Barrus couldnt have helped enough, but there supplier for all the parts was Brunswick, Brunswick own Mercruiser mercurey, and are now on a joint venture with Cummins (CMD), I purchased the engine as a running complete unit from a mercruiser dealer, I investigated the part lists for the engine and found that Brunswick are the core problem, somehow they have managed to mix up the ECM part number for the 250 and 300 D-Tronic, I then had this out with Barrus (who supplied all of the parts through CMD who sourced them from Brunswick) Barrus ordered the ecm using the correct engine serial number, I have screen shots of the Brunswick Parts Lists clearly showing the wrong parts numbers, after 2 incorrect ECM's were sent, I demanded that CMD supplied me with the Bodensea version which incidentaly was the same ECM for the CMD300es

as far as digging a whole for my self, who do you think you are?? a CMD rep??
I have proved beyond doubt that Brunswick have got the wrong parts listed

you need to get your facts right before you make such pathetic assumptions

 

[DAKA]

You ordered and paid for a 300 ecm, they sent you a 250ecm
Ask for your money back , stop wasting time in trying to get a new one and buy this one for a fraction of the cost, it has even been tested on a 300 so you know it works !




http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F207739


The part numbers for the ecms are most likely the same because they are the same.
The ecm is then programmed to run each individual engine model.

I had a new one fitted to my car a couple of years ago

You order the ecm which is the same one fitted to several engine models, the ecm then has to be programmed to the actual engine.

Do you really want them giving you your ecm back reprogrammed, when you may as well get your money back and buy the above one ?

To simplify the situation

If you have a computer running your factory automated production line and it breaks, you go and buy a new computer to replace it but it will not work until someone tells the computer how to run your production line, you were supplied with the right computer but without the original engineer to install it and program it you cant just plug it in and expect it with know what to do, the above second hand computer (ecu) has already been programmed to run your engine so you dont need the VM engineer to fit it.

send me a pm with your email if you want more details, I dont really post here now but thought you needed help not the usual forum barrage of abuse.

 

[wetspot]

Hi Dacarak

no I dont need an ECM now, CMD finally sent me a brand new Bodensea version(German Lakes) free of charge, my question was would any dammage have occured having the wrong one fitted for 2 years??

as they are completly diferent engines although they look the same, the only common parts are the oil filler caps and the paint !.

CMD are currently investigating the ECM's, as I made a complaint and demanded compensation, the engine is currently running ok, but could any dammage have occured which has not shown up yet??

although the ECM's are the same unit, they are programed at supplier level (Bosch), not CMD/Brunswick/Mercruiser they are plug and play units
Brunswick/CMD got it badly wrong

 

[wetspot]

to prove a point have a look at these two parts lists, one is for my engine the Mercruiser 300hp D-Tronic and the other is for the 250hp D-Tronic, pay particular attention to the ECM part numbers

first 250hp

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...=2673&bnbr=320&bdesc=CONTROL+UNIT+AND+BRACKET

and second 300hp

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...r=8502&bnbr=50&bdesc=CONTROL+UNIT+AND+BRACKET

as for the second hand ECM, from the D-tronic that pushed a con rod through the block, or so I am told which is becoming a major fault of these engines, I purchased the bosch diesel injector pump as a spare just in case, back in May as you never know, I am assuming it is from the same source.

just from curisosity Dacarak what engines do you have in your boat??

 

[wetspot]

Cummins Mercruiser have stated they may have supplied the wrong ECM for the past 2 years, and thats it, they are trying to brush the whole issue under the carpet !!!

 

[teerex]

My first post here in the motor boat forum, and why not try an image:
This is my D-tronic 250 ECM from 1998. It can be reprogrammed to 290 hp according to a company who has done it before. Maybe I will try that.

 

[teerex]

The designation MD706LI is for the 250 HP engine.
A 300 HP ECM would probably have MD706LH on the label.

 

[DAKA]

just checked mine (2004 300 hp), you are right.

Bosch part number is the same as yours.
VM sticker does indeed show 706 LH

700 series block comes in 4 cylinders and 6 ie/ 704 and 706

The ecm made by bosch is the same for the whole range, it just needs to be programmed to each individual engine.

I believe the 250 hp ecm is cheaper than the 300hp which is odd but anyone who needs an ecm should not try to save a few pounds as it is a false economy.

 

[Pennpromo]

CMD

Just to add fuel to the fire, I had a CMD 320 that stopped on me with under 65 hours on the clock back in May last year when it was three months out of warranty. I took it first to CMD in Swanwick and they stripped it down, gacve me an estimate for about £3.5K to fix and said they would see how they could help. They then came back and said the block was cracked and that I needed a short engine, nto available until September, a five month delay! I took the parts back, got the VM Specialist in Derbyshire to re-build for a keen price using genuine VM parts. Then found that we had "lost" the turbo outlet elbow. CMD said they didn't have it three times on the phone, I brought a second hand one and then suddenly a used one arrives in the post from CMD with no explanation, and I know it was mine . Still trying to chase CMD for assistance but they have stopped answering letters. All in all **** service I am afraid. Now done about 12 more hours on engines, all seems OK but got about £10K in bills with engine in and out costs.
The shame is that apart from being a bit noisy they seem really nice engines they start immediately, no smoke, have plenty of power and don't seem to use much oil, pressure is often only about 2 bar but all seems OK.
Just kind of think that I should sell whilst the going is good !

 

[wetspot]

teerex dont bother with altering your ecm, in fact anyone interested in increasing HP dont, with this engine that is the VM 6 cyl diesel produced by Mercruiser then Cummins, dont be fooled into thinking they are the same engine, although the look the same they are not. Yes I have been through boating hell with Cummins but I came out on top, the 250 D tronic may apear to be the same as the 300 but for the ecm, but believe me they are not, the only common part they share is the oil filler cap, I spent over 2 years fighting with Barrus/Cummins and it turned out to be the fault of Brunswick Marine (who owns Mercruiser and has gone to bed with Cummins) but due to the contractual issues the blame fell with Cummins, and yes I won all be it partially, after I higlighted the FACT Brunswick cocked up with the parts lists, they sent me a new ECM (Bodensee version shared with the cummins 300es) the engine is now awsome, 40mph out of a bayliner 2556 giving around 7mpg at 25mph, but that wasnt enough, so I pursued Cummins, they settled out of court for a mere £2500 all because I couldnt be bothered to take them there. Marine engines are built to last so if you alter any of the parameters they will not last, consumer engines are on the limit as far as power is conceraned where as commercial engines are hevilly restricted so they will go the distance.
I hate to say it but I know more about these engines than cummins dose, but for the wrong reasons.
as for Barrus they could not help me enough, afterall they were only using the partslists provided by Brunswick Marine, if only Barrus was the ongoing importer, we would all be in a much better position (I assue many would disagree!!) but Cummins are evil.

 

[DAKA]

You have my sincere sympathy , you have been very unlucky indeed.
I cant help but feel Cummins have unjustly ended up the the mucky end of the stick terminating in you calling then evil on an open forum.

You bought a faulty engine in bits with an unknown history.
You must have realized there could be teething issues however you choose to take the gamble.

I often cringe when I hear buyer beware but if I buy a car from a breakers yard and fix a bumper do I have the right to moan when the clutch slips !

Why was your engine in bits when you bought it , do I remember you saying it was due to a previous warranty claim ?
If so someone had already been successful in returning your faulty engine .
You then knowingly bought the salvage of the faulty engine
You then try to claim from cummins again for the same engine, just how many times do you expect them to fork out

Why not go down to the breakers yard, buy a written off BMW
Insure it and then claim for the repairs.

Good scam !

 

[wetspot]

You have my sincere sympathy , you have been very unlucky indeed.
I cant help but feel Cummins have unjustly ended up the the mucky end of the stick terminating in you calling then evil on an open forum.

You bought a faulty engine in bits with an unknown history.
You must have realized there could be teething issues however you choose to take the gamble.

I often cringe when I hear buyer beware but if I buy a car from a breakers yard and fix a bumper do I have the right to moan when the clutch slips !

Why was your engine in bits when you bought it , do I remember you saying it was due to a previous warranty claim ?
If so someone had already been successful in returning your faulty engine .
You then knowingly bought the salvage of the faulty engine
You then try to claim from cummins again for the same engine, just how many times do you expect them to fork out

Why not go down to the breakers yard, buy a written off BMW
Insure it and then claim for the repairs.

Good scam !

the engine was purchased as a complete functioning unit from a reputable Mercruiser dealer, it was supplied with all new anciallarys including a brand new ECM, all the parts supplied were as far as Brunswick concearned the correct parts, as for warrenty the dealer sold it with one year, and I do know the history.
Cummins admitted they/Brunswick cocked the part numbers up and thus they sent me a new ecm and also paid me copmensation !!!
the engine itself runs as sweet as a nut, the problem was the ECM

 

[DAKA]

the engine was purchased as a complete functioning unit from a reputable Mercruiser dealer, it was supplied with all new anciallarys including a brand new ECM, all the parts supplied were as far as Brunswick concearned the correct parts, as for warrenty the dealer sold it with one year, and I do know the history.
Cummins admitted they/Brunswick cocked the part numbers up and thus they sent me a new ecm and also paid me copmensation !!!
the engine itself runs as sweet as a nut, the problem was the ECM

We both know the actual part was the correct part , it has the same part number as it should.
The same part is programmed to each individual application as detailed above.
Modern engines have the ability to accept new programs in their ecu, just plug into the service port and change the map ( some main dealers do this as routine during a car service now ).

You have clearly been very unlucky , I was just attempting to make the point that Brunswick sold you an engine in bits, you have an ecu that was programmed for the wrong engine supplied by a mercruiser dealer.
Cummins sort it out and you call them evil

if you had returned the engine to the factory , it would have been apparent that your ecu had been programmed to 250 hp and not 300hp but I guess the engine was sat in your boat while you tweaked it.

Your engine had already been found faulty and replaced under warranty.

You then buy it knowing it has a history, kick up a stink, cummins then help you out ..........and you call them evil

Cummins didnt program the ecu, cummins didnt supply the engine, cummins didnt put the wrong program into the ecu .

There was a post on here a while back when someone was asking if a 250 ecu would work in a 300 , as it was cheaper but had the same part number, its a shame I cant find it as I guess it is the missing link to this tale and would point to the culprit...........I cant imagine Cummins asking on this forum , can you .

Anyway really please your boat is performing well, thats the most important bit

 

[wetspot]

We both know the actual part was the correct part , it has the same part number as it should.
The same part is programmed to each individual application as detailed above.
Modern engines have the ability to accept new programs in their ecu, just plug into the service port and change the map ( some main dealers do this as routine during a car service now ).

You have clearly been very unlucky , I was just attempting to make the point that Brunswick sold you an engine in bits, you have an ecu that was programmed for the wrong engine supplied by a mercruiser dealer.
Cummins sort it out and you call them evil

if you had returned the engine to the factory , it would have been apparent that your ecu had been programmed to 250 hp and not 300hp but I guess the engine was sat in your boat while you tweaked it.

Your engine had already been found faulty and replaced under warranty.

You then buy it knowing it has a history, kick up a stink, cummins then help you out ..........and you call them evil

Cummins didnt program the ecu, cummins didnt supply the engine, cummins didnt put the wrong program into the ecu .

There was a post on here a while back when someone was asking if a 250 ecu would work in a 300 , as it was cheaper but had the same part number, its a shame I cant find it as I guess it is the missing link to this tale and would point to the culprit...........I cant imagine Cummins asking on this forum , can you .

Anyway really please your boat is performing well, thats the most important bit

as a matter of fact the first 2 ECM's supplied only had Bosch numbers on of which they were diferent to each other and neither had VM or Quicksilver part numbers on them, and yes they are programable and are used in many applications, but what you dont seem to understand is that Brunswick mixed the part numbers up several years ago, and as for Cummins they just wanted to brush the whole episode under the carpet as they would not admit that they including Brunswick were in fact wrong, after over 2 years they finally admitted they were indeed wrong, as for Cummins helping me out what a load oc ****, they only started to communicate after I threatened legal action, judging by your tone I assume you actually work for Cummins ? which would explain a lot! I am not a liar nor a cheapskate, I am just sick of large companies treating the end user with no respect.