'Med' mooring

[webcraft]

\'Med\' mooring

Why?

All the places we have been bows to could have fitted just as many boats in if they had fingers.

Are fingers so much more expensive than maintenance of fixed ropes and ground tackle?

The thing we DO like though - being a very little boat - is the system of charging for length x breadth,which means we pay considerably less than half as much as a 40 footer, not 80% of the amount as tends to happen in the UK.

- Nick

Albin Vega 27 'Fairwinds'
Fuertaventura, Canary Islands
http://www.znoy8.co.uk

 

[Anonymous]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

[ QUOTE ]
All the places we have been bows to could have fitted just as many boats in if they had fingers.

[/ QUOTE ]You've lost me there. Imagine a length of harbour wall. Along this wall you moor boats bow/stern - to. The width of each boat is beam + one fender width. Here is a photo of Almerimar - could one get as many boats in with pontoons? I doubt it as there is only just enough room to manoeuvre between the boats as it is, throughout most of the marina.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

Bastia, Corsica. Where is the space for the fingers? Every inch of quay space in many western Med marinas is occupied solely by boats. Fingers could reduce the number of boat spaces by more than 10%.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

Fingers cost, require maintenance, take up space.

Anyway, it's far more entertaining to watch anchor games from the quayside, both on arrival, and at departure. Beats television. Hmmm. There's thought. Reality show material?

 

[ostria]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. There's thought. Reality show material?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't miss a show personally!!!
Imagine enjoying all those anchor games during the winter and in the dark from your tv with a whiskey at hand!!!

No where close to watching it live though /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[jeremyshaw]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

Another fing about fingers is that they define the space. So even if (as is indeed often the case) there is enough space between boats for a finger, the positioning of the fingers would often be wrong, so you'd waste far more space than the fingers themselves.

Then there's the kind of mooring you get in Hydra, Greece, where not only are the boats jam packed, but the next 'wave' come and park in front, between the bows of each. However horrible, it's very space efficient!

 

[Grehan]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

But . . .
Med mooring is only suitable for locations with fairly modest tidal ranges.
Here in Marina Bay, Gibraltar we have a range approaching a metre at Springs. Even at Neaps there is enough difference to make setting one's Med mooring lines difficult. Set them - most particularly the ground line - tight at high water and they become loose at low water - increasing the chance of moving around in wind and swell and maybe clouting the (concrete) jetty with bow or stern. Set them tight at low water and they creak with the strain of high water. Yes, of course we use some common sense, and rubber compensators and springs but they don't fully solve the problem. The other Gib marinas use floating pontoons, which IMHO is better for tidal circumstances hereabouts.

 

[steve_cronin]

That Dump!!!

I would NEVER go there at any part of the year that there was the SLIGHTEST chance of Jonny Charterer pushing his ill controlled nose in between my bow and my neighbour's. Much less, having his grotty unwashed, ill mannered kids stumbling all over my decks at all hours - even if this DID mean possibly losing the chance of bumping into a certain famous veteran US folk singer. (but I suspect that even Leonard Cohen abandons the place in the height of summer)

Steve cronin

 

[FAITIRA]

Re: That Dump!!!

You must miss out on meeting a lot of nice and interesting people with your attitude.

 

[steve_cronin]

You\'re suggesting that....

.. I should trade certain boat damage (I've been there and had that) for socialising with the inept customers of some charter company that isn't interested in looking after their boats just taking the money are you?

If you've seen young ladies dancing in steel tipped heels on other people's GRP decks as i have you wouldn't make snide comments like that.

No doubt you are one of these people who also considers dents in car doors from clumsy shoppers in car parks as acceptable, even a kind of "Badge of Honour" are you?

Well, I share the view of the majority* in our marina who also put the protection of their boats before socialising with people they will never want to meet again. Of course real cruising folk are a different matter and don't put a desperate desire to raft up with their mates at whatever cost to others ahead of good seamanship and proper regard for other people's property.

Steve Cronin

* This of course excludes the "Hippy" and "Boat Bum" elements

 

[webcraft]

Re: \'Med\' mooring - tidal range

There's up to two metres here in the Canaries at Springs and adjusting lines is difficult as you say. Some type of mooring compensator is almost essential.

Mot places we have been here only have a fixed number of stern lines and so only take a fixed number of boats. Unless these are all 4m or so beam the pontoon holds no more boats than it would with fingers.

If people use their own anchor rather than a fixed sternline then of course you can get all the boats side to side as per thenice pics, but that is not the case here in places like Las Palmas with a fixed number of stern lines. Of course in bigger places then theoretically different pontoons are for different boat sizes, but this is often not adhered to.

- Nick

 

[Anonymous]

Re: \'Med\' mooring - tidal range

Following your argument, if you put fingers in you would be able to get the same number of small boats in but there wouldn't be any room for big boats. The average choice for a cruising couple has been increasing over the years and a 4m beam is now becoming pretty typical, certainly here in the western Med. Here in Almerimar a 15m berth has an allowance of 4.5m including fenders, and a 12m berth is allowed 4m including fenders. The length is strictly adhered to - they commonly take into account davits unless they are of the sort that can clearly be turned-in at a moment's notice.

Don't forget the harmful effect of swell and surge on pontoons. They can buck themselves apart very easily and plenty of harbours get nasty surge in the winter. Parts of Gib are a prime example.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

We stayed in Queensway Quay in August 2005 for a week or so. The new construction had reached the point where we entered the marina via the old southerly entrance (via a buoyed channel) and left via the new northern entrance - all in the space of a week or so. We wondered whether to make Gib our base but were put off by the terrible surge - broken compensators littered the marinas and there was evidence of severe damage everywhere. People just accepted it as 'one of those things'. Are things as bad there today, do you know?

We are wondering if it might be prudent to winter outside Spain this coming winter - would Gib be a good place, in your opinion, given that our boat is our home 365/365?

 

[jimbaerselman]

Re: That Dump!!!

[ QUOTE ]
You must miss out on meeting a lot of nice and interesting people with your attitude.

[/ QUOTE ] I guess you've not been to Hydra harbour. Even ignoring the manners of those aboard yachts there, it's a dangerous scrum for four or more months a year. Your chances of sustaining boat damage are high, and many charter companies recommend their clients to avoid the place.

 

[FAITIRA]

Re: You\'re suggesting that....

I do sympathise, must be desperate being paranoid

 

[Richard10002]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

[ QUOTE ]
We are wondering if it might be prudent to winter outside Spain this coming winter - would Gib be a good place, in your opinion, given that our boat is our home 365/365?

[/ QUOTE ]

You use the word "prudent". Is that to do with residency and tax, or something else.

As you know, I think you would find it hard to beat Lagos for winter, both in terms of rates, facilities and activity, as well as a good liveaboard crowd. It's a bit chilly at night, but 'd guess that Almerimar is similar.

I would definitely stay here for another year, (after a summer cruise), if I wasnt looking for somewhere that doesnt charge CGT on overseas sales, (Gib, Monaco, Malta, Cyprus), so we're heading for Malta, which seems cheap and a bit warmer.

Cheers

Richard

 

[steve_cronin]

You can continue to wallow in

...your cynical Gaelic wit pal but I'll be continuing to lookafter my boat by keeping out of Hydra in July & August. You do what the hell you like with yours.

Steve Cronin

 

[Anonymous]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

Prudent in the sense of de facto residency resulting in our having to pay import duty on the yacht - and getting a precinto to stop us moving (or selling) while the argument goes on over years. OK, the chances are fairly low but they are far higher than many of the categories of peril included in one's average insurance policy.

What's the issue about CGT? If, as a Brit, UK resident, I decide to sell my UK flagged vessel, presently in, say, Spain, to another EU resident (Spanish or otherwise) is there tax due on the proceeds? I have it in mind that when our liveaboard time is over we will sail back to the UK and sell her there as prices seem better and Nauticats are more popular in northern Europe.

 

[Grehan]

Gib

Hi Lemain
Grehan's now been in Marina Bay for a year. Gib's a landmark, speaks English (well, Spanglish), has Safeway (Morrisons) and other shops (incl. M+S if that's your bag) close by, climate's pretty good etc but is also quite scruffy in parts. Nice sailing in the Bay and across to Morocco. Foreign and yet not. Marina Bay has a reasonable community of liveaboards but I suspect not like Almerimar. We do have an excellent Quiz Night on Tuesday evenings, thanks to Chas ("ChasRoberts" on YBW) on Noosa. The marina staff are helpful. Pricing is not bad (I think - ??) during the off season.
All in all, it's been a good year but a year or a bit more is enough, for us.

As for safety - there are strong winds here from time to time, and noticeable swell sometimes. In every F8-9 someone gets some damage and that has included us (pulpit clout). Forewarned is forearmed. Set the boat as far away from the pier as possible, commensurate with actually managing to get off (!). Set lines with care (we currently have a near-cat's cradle of bow lines, springs and stern lines . . ). It's debatable whether its better to face West or East. We have preferred West, which is the most open aspect, but Easterlies then produce the worst kind of yawing movement. It's also debatable whether a berth closer in is better (the swell tends to bounce off the quayside). If Chas has some thoughts no doubt he'll post a message.

We did berth in Queensway for a couple of nights a few years ago, before the changes. What I've described at Marina Bay is nothing like as bad as the constant rocking we experienced there, then. It seems, by observation only, that Queensway's much better now.

Are you concerned about these tax issues, currently being aired? Has anyone experienced any of it at Almerimar? Maybe you're all below the parapet and ok?

regards

 

[Richard10002]

Re: \'Med\' mooring

[ QUOTE ]
What's the issue about CGT?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not the boat... property.

It's a bit of a story....

I have two houses converted into 7 self contained flats each. 2 years ago, I started the process to change 1 house from 1 freehold to 7 leaseholds so that i could get finance on 5 flats and have 2 flats and the other house loan free.

It seems that if you change a freehold into a leasehold, you create a disposal for CGT purposes, and have to pay the tax, even though you still own what you used to own, and havent sold anything, (to get the money to pay the tax). Seemed grossly unfair and, needless to say, I cancelled the change and borrowed against the whole property.

Given that i was planning to leave the UK and live on Rogue, it made sense to try and become non resident and not ordinarily resident, and to base myself somewhere that doesnt charge CGT on overseas gains. After 5 years, I would hopefully not be liable for CGT in the UK, and could "create" the gains without incurring the liability.

It also means that if I decide to sell, I can also avoid the CGT.

The money involved is worth giving it a good go.

Cheers

Richard