Med Berthing away from home berth - advice please!

[Scubaboy79]

Hello,

I'm a long time follower of this forum, but this is my first post! Having been a fan of Princess yachts since I was 13 (now 37...) a friend and I finally purchased a share in a Princess 62 berthed in Puerto Portals last year. We have now passed our day skipper, and are beginning to venture further afield by ourselves which we love.

This summer we're going to head up to Soller and have secured an overnight berth in Marina Tramontana. This will be our first time attempting to berth in a marina that is not our home berth. I have three questions, and would be grateful for any wisdom or words of advice:

1) Presumably we use our own lines to secure our stern, rather than lines already attached to the dock? If so, do you put a bowline in the end of each line and attach the loop end to the bollard in order to attach to the dock, before then pulling (winching) tight once the bow is secure as normal?

2) When it comes to leaving the berth, how do you release the stern lines and get back onto the boat, given it will move forward from the weight of the lines securing the bow? Or do you change the line configuration to slipping lines so both ends are on board the boat with just a loop around the bollard? If so, can you do that from the start or is it not safe to moor overnight with slipping lines? (In our home berth, we just throw the lines back onto the dock, but obviously we can't do that when it's not our home berth.)

3) Hopefully an easy question, do our shore power lines just plug into the shore power sockets at Soller in the same way they do at Portals?

Forgive my naivety in asking these questions - it's a steep but really fun learning curve!

 

[Portofino]

Etiquette is such you use your own lines
And hope a tenant in your berth does not use your fixed line s

Yup either way works .
You need to arrange a slip when you leave ( longer lines ) and pull em through from the boat .
Sometimes there are rings so security is not an issue -- if it's windy just wrap a coil or two around the bollard and uncoil for slipping the morning

Shore power -- I probably got more adapters than fingers - collected over the past 12 y
There s no standard system but some one from the Baldrics will be along soon to answer more specifically .
If you are caught short usually via a deposit the marina office will lend an adaptor -subject to availability , or find a chandlery and start your collection .

If its windy do feel free to ask for help a kid in a rib will come out and help push the nose round etc -along with helping with the bow lines .Theres no shame better than the sound of fibreglass on concrete or an anchor !

 

[Hurricane]

When we last visited Soller, the marina staff were very helpful with all the lines etc.

Your questions.
1
The biggest problem visiting a berth where you haven't been before is attaching the bow (lazy) lines at the correct length. Once you have been into that berth, some tape wrapped around the lines mark the position for subsequent arrivals. So, how do we get the correct length. The biggest issue is to remain assertive - the crew must issue orders to the dockside staff. We usually tie a bowline in our travelling stern lines and throw that end to the dockside crew with a specific request to attach it to a bollard. If you were to pass them a loose end, and they were to continue pulling the rope, you loose complete control. You MUST have the loose end on the boat and the fixed end ashore - that keeps YOU in control. My SWMBO does all this whilst I drive our Princess 67 from the flybridge. She insists on two lines attached to bollards with bowlines and she then loops them loosely round our stern cleats so that the excess rope can run through (the actual end is tied off). She then concentrates on picking up the slime lines (one at a time) which are usually handed to her from the dockside staff. The next bit is where we ALWAYS get advice from the dockside that we ignore. We let the boat drift forward whilst SWMBO pulls the lazy lines onto the bow cleats. We DELIBERATELY let the boat go further forward than we need (often by and much as 10 metres). The dockside staff usually shout that we are too far out. Of course, we KNOW that. By then, I can get down to the cockpit and (after SWMBO has made fast the second lazy line) I can start winching in. Of course, the boat will not get anywhere near the dock because the lazy lines are far too tight. Once the stern lines are tight, I can then assess EXACTLY how much needs to be let off the bow lines (generally we do it in a couple of stages) to get the boat back into exactly the correct position. Using this process, SWMBO doesn't need to do any heavy pulling on ropes - the lazy lines for a 20m berth can be very heavy so using this technique makes everything very do-able.

2
If we are feeling very confident (especially if we are coming into a berth where we have been before with marked lazy lines), SWMBO will throw a loop line to the dockside staff - one end "made off on our stern cleat - the other end round our stern winches. That way we are rigged to leave by just slipping the lines as you suggest. If we have previously docked using a single strand stern line (as described above), we will always re-rig them with slips before we leave.

3
Shore power.
I have had lots of problems in the past with different (badly wired) shore supplies.
It is amazing how many bad supplies there are out there.
Very often there are bad/burned connections.
I carry a set of test equipment that consists of a UK mains tester and adaptors that I religiously check each time I connect to a new (untested) supply.
I also have a simple method of testing using a multimeter.
If you would like some links to the test equipment that I carry, just let me know and I will post some links on this thread.
Some people on here will remember that in Tunisia, we were given a 380v shore supply that damaged five grand's worth of equipment on our boat!!
As I say, I now check and double check EVERY shore supply that we are given.
Believe me it is worth it!!

Finally, back onto your points 1 and 2.
SWMBO and I confidently manage our P67 but we found that sometimes we are unable to see or hear each other.
So, a few years ago, I started a thread on this forum about developing some on board communications to make docking easier and safer.
This is a link to that thread
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?364076-In-boat-communications

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we now use ready made Sena Bluetooth headsets which are completely wireless.
These headsets are full duplex so we can talk to each other and keep our hands free to manage lines and throttles etc.
They take the tension out of the whole docking process and help us remain assertive so that (at least) WE know what WE are doing.
You can get these really useful headsets from here.
http://sabreleisure.co.uk/
Many people on this forum have them - several are using them in Mallorca.
I really recommend them for the trickier/unknown situations.

BTW - Well done with the share in the Princess 62 - a fine boat.
Maybe we will see you around Mallorca this summer - we should be across there from the end of July until the end of August - hopefully moving on to Ibiza before home to mainland Spain.
Also hoping to do a late season cruise to the islands at the end of September.
You shouldn't miss us - a Princess 67 called Jennywren - If you see us in an anchorage, please pop over - we usually have some cold Cava in the fridge!!

 

[TonyR123]

Shore power - have only docked in 3 ports and all had different adaptors. The portals one as far as I know is def not standard.

Which pontoon in portals are you berthed? I am out there this weekend for my new boat (prestige 500) handover, on the capaccino pontoon.

 

[jfm]

1
The biggest problem visiting a berth where you haven't been before is attaching the bow (lazy) lines at the correct length. Once you have been into that berth, some tape wrapped around the lines mark the position for subsequent arrivals. So, how do we get the correct length. The biggest issue is to remain assertive - the crew must issue orders to the dockside staff. We usually tie a bowline in our travelling stern lines and throw that end to the dockside crew with a specific request to attach it to a bollard. If you were to pass them a loose end, and they were to continue pulling the rope, you loose complete control. You MUST have the loose end on the boat and the fixed end ashore - that keeps YOU in control. My SWMBO does all this whilst I drive our Princess 67 from the flybridge. She insists on two lines attached to bollards with bowlines and she then loops them loosely round our stern cleats so that the excess rope can run through (the actual end is tied off). She then concentrates on picking up the slime lines (one at a time) which are usually handed to her from the dockside staff. The next bit is where we ALWAYS get advice from the dockside that we ignore. We let the boat drift forward whilst SWMBO pulls the lazy lines onto the bow cleats. We DELIBERATELY let the boat go further forward than we need (often by and much as 10 metres). The dockside staff usually shout that we are too far out. Of course, we KNOW that. By then, I can get down to the cockpit and (after SWMBO has made fast the second lazy line) I can start winching in. Of course, the boat will not get anywhere near the dock because the lazy lines are far too tight. Once the stern lines are tight, I can then assess EXACTLY how much needs to be let off the bow lines (generally we do it in a couple of stages) to get the boat back into exactly the correct position. Using this process, SWMBO doesn't need to do any heavy pulling on ropes - the lazy lines for a 20m berth can be very heavy so using this technique makes everything very do-able.

I agree all of hurricane's post but especially the above. In the above he has it exactly right in my book, and that is exactly the method I use.

When departing the dock I do not rig slipping lines. I prefer to drive the boat from the aft deck, keeping the boat in position using the engines to resist the pull-forward of the bow ground lines. Crew can go ashore on passerelle to collect our stern lines while I hold the boat in position by dabbing the gears. Saves the hassle of rigging a slipping line but I suggest you only do this once you have really got the hang of positioning the boat really accurately on the gear levers and bowthruster

Yup I too have about a dozen shoreline adaptors/ plugs and spend hours of my life sorting them out when I get to a new berth (South of France, IT, Balearics)

 

[markc]

Hi

Some great advice here - just what I need too - this stern to malarky is all new to me!

Thanks!

 

[Bouba]

I do it in three stages. First I reverse in as close as possible to allow my wife to step ashore with the lines (I have a reversing camera and I'm assuming here that there is no one to throw the lines to). She attaches them quickly to the shore cleats and then fishes out the slime line with a boathook. All the while I'm controlling the thrusters and motor to keep the boat facing straight (I think that when new to this that it's easier to slip between two boats that way you never go out of line). I then leave the controls (I have a side door and always dock from below) grab my gloves (very important) and walk the slime line to the bow. I then pull in the heavy line off the sea floor and without staining too much attach it to my bow cleat (by the way always take the slime line on thé harbour entrance side of the boat, unless some other b*****r has already got it first). This is done very quickly and smoothly, it sounds a lot but this first part requires the teamwork and with a little practice a husband and wife can make a good team!
The boat is now secured and the next two stages are done at leisure. My wife removes one of the two lines and passes it though the shore cleat and passes it to me after I return to the stern. This line is now secured to the boats cleat and then she passes the next one and after I've secured it she comes back aboard. All lines should be handled from the boat, this makes leaving easier and safer.
The final stage I return to the bow, she loosens the lines about a meter or so and I use this slack to tighten up the ground line. I then return and help pull in the stern lines till the boat is tight and secure yet close enough to step ashore (when starting out it can take several attempts to get the balance between the front and rear lines). Fenders are then readjusted to suit.
Took way longer to write it than it takes to do it

 

[Portofino]

There ,s two types of water adaptor ( so far ? )
The most popular is the std Gardena screw on which your hozeloc connector will fit .
But evey now and again there's a marina with a type of industrial rota -able type ,which are awkward to fit and then you need a 15 mm jubilee to clamp the hose .

But if you are lucky there may be a friendly neighbour s all ready for go .
You tend to or "crew" mess up sides ,fenders and foredeck with a muddy unfamiliar line -more so than at home + salt needs washing off and always top up the tank ,cos you never know when your next access to water will be when touring .

It's Tomorow @ Porto x I hear you say --- not necessarily --you arrive ,dock beautifully ,rubics cube the shore power and find out there's a water shortage or a kerfew or limited availability on the" tempory visitors " pontoon they shoved you on !

I would find time to practice in bigger spaces manoeuvreing the boat ,turning and backing in etc ,in particular the Oppersite side to your home berth .Do this @ home port .Put a couple of crew on roving fender duty while you improve your handling .
Nobody minds .Then reduce the gap accordingly .Perhaps go past your own berth and come in the other way too .

 

[jrudge]

As above. Loose back lines do bow line winch in and amend bow line if required. I don't to 10m but just have true boat 4-5 m off the dock get bow line an easy pull tight and then winch in. Normally works without adjustment

Soller can be a bugger especially if windy

1. You are against a high wall

2 the bow lines are HUGE. really huge so for this one place I would go with the hurricane 10m ( maybe not that much !) as there is a lot of sag

3 the dock is visitors only and tends to totally empty of boats so if you get there early you are against a blank wall with no boats to go along side which is not a problem .... unless it is windy !

I always have a spare line knocking about. If required just use this mid cleat to mid cleat on the boat next door ( assuming it is in roughly the right place which it usually seems to be. This then stop the boat and gives you all the time you need to sort the lines without fear of hitting the back

I have never used slip lines. Either the marinaros ( call on ch 9 usually sometimes 8) a passer by or in need just release an hop on paserelle. It moves but not that fast.

Enjoy

 

[markc]

I always have a spare line knocking about. If required just use this mid cleat to mid cleat on the boat next door ( assuming it is in roughly the right place which it usually seems to be. This then stop the boat and gives you all the time you need to sort the lines without fear of hitting the back

Great tip, I'll remember that

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I agree all of hurricane's post but especially the above. In the above he has it exactly right in my book, and that is exactly the method I use.

When departing the dock I do not rig slipping lines. I prefer to drive the boat from the aft deck, keeping the boat in position using the engines to resist the pull-forward of the bow ground lines. Crew can go ashore on passerelle to collect our stern lines while I hold the boat in position by dabbing the gears. Saves the hassle of rigging a slipping line but I suggest you only do this once you have really got the hang of positioning the boat really accurately on the gear levers and bowthruster

Yup I too have about a dozen shoreline adaptors/ plugs and spend hours of my life sorting them out when I get to a new berth (South of France, IT, Balearics)

Yes very good advice from H and agree entirely. It is much easier to slacken off the bow lines and pull in the stern lines to position the boat than to do the opposite. The only difference in my case is that I dont like using the winches to tighten the stern lines because as soon as you take the line off the winch drum in order to tie it on to a cleat, the boat moves forward. Yes I know there is a technique for stopping this happening but its a pain. I prefer just to use the throttles from the cockpit control station, moving them gently in and out of gear to move the boat astern and allow the stern lines to be pulled in

Actually when leaving a Med berth, I usually do rig a single slip line before removing the main stern lines. For me its a bit risky using the throttles to hold the boat when there may be lines in the water being pulled on to the boat and somebody jumping on to the pasarelle from the quay who may fall into the water. As for marking the position of bow lines I use cable ties but these are not infallible because they can slip even if tightened up hard

 

[Hurricane]

For me its a bit risky using the throttles to hold the boat when there may be lines in the water being pulled on to the boat and somebody jumping on to the pasarelle from the quay who may fall into the water.

Yep - that what I thought.
Before leaving it is a good idea to make sure that the slime lines (the ones attached to the dock) are well apart and clear of the boat's stern gear
On leaving, we get everyone board, stow the passerelle and then release the slips.
The boat then moves gently forward - being pulled by the bow lines.
SWMBO then releases the bow lines and WATCHES each one sink.
She then indicates to me that it is clear to move off.
We haven't (yet) caught a line but it always worries me.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We haven't (yet) caught a line but it always worries me.

Yup it worries me too and also especially where the fairway is narrow where you have to do a sharp turn on leaving the berth and there is a risk of catching your neighbour's bow line too. In those situations I try to use the bow and stern thrusters to turn the boat rather than the engines because if you do catch a bow line with a prop at least it wont be wrapped around it

 

[Nick_H]

I also agree Hurricane's comments, except of course you can't throw the dock staff a bowline if you are mooring to rings rather than bollards. In that situation we let them tie off first around the ring, then secure the boat end. Like Deleted User I rig a single slip line just before leaving, so it can be released from the cockpit.

Unlike H though I'd always release the bow lines first, then the stern. If you do it the other way around there is a chance that as the boat moves forward the lazy lines are pulled tight and into the propellers. Ask me how I know this

 

[Bouba]

Yup it worries me too and also especially where the fairway is narrow where you have to do a sharp turn on leaving the berth and there is a risk of catching your neighbour's bow line too. In those situations I try to use the bow and stern thrusters to turn the boat rather than the engines because if you do catch a bow line with a prop at least it wont be wrapped around it

That is a top tip! Thanks Mike
Saw a boat catch the line the day before yesterday at Porquerolles and it's been on my mind

 

[Hurricane]

Unlike H though I'd always release the bow lines first, then the stern. If you do it the other way around there is a chance that as the boat moves forward the lazy lines are pulled tight and into the propellers. Ask me how I know this

Thats a good point - we have been in places where the slime lines (the ones attached to the quay) are shorter than usual.

 

[baylabayla3288]

When departing the dock I do not rig slipping lines. I prefer to drive the boat from the aft deck, keeping the boat in position using the engines to resist the pull-forward of the bow ground lines. Crew can go ashore on passerelle to collect our stern lines while I hold the boat in position by dabbing the gears. Saves the hassle of rigging a slipping line but I suggest you only do this once you have really got the hang of positioning the boat really accurately on the gear levers and bowthruster

Are you not risking sucking the "lazy lines" into the props when reversing this closely to the dock? Edit: sorry, this was already commented above but still even if you counter the pull forward with the engines and keep them slack I would see a risk of sucking them with the reverse slip stream...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That is a top tip! Thanks Mike
Saw a boat catch the line the day before yesterday at Porquerolles and it's been on my mind

The real problem is that when you use the engines to turn the boat, it pivots about a point about 2/3rds of the way aft of the bow so when you turn directly after you leave a berth using the engines only, not only are you pivoting the bow in the direction you want to go but you are also pivoting the stern on to your neighbour's bow lines. On the other hand if you use just the bowthruster to turn the boat, the boat is pivoting about it's stern; in other words the stern stays roughly in position and hopefully not close to your neighbour's bow lines. Of course all this depends on the wind as well which may be blowing the boat on to your neighbour's bow lines which is why you might have to use the sternthruster to hold the stern in position whilst you pivot the bow with the bowthruster and of course this all assumes that the thrusters are powerful enough to do this. In my experience Ferretti usually fit reasonably powerful thrusters so its not usually a problem. I think the main point really is an obvious one ie to try not to use the engines when you are close to ropes in the water

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Unlike H though I'd always release the bow lines first, then the stern. If you do it the other way around there is a chance that as the boat moves forward the lazy lines are pulled tight and into the propellers. Ask me how I know this

Yup I've got the t shirt when it comes to catching lazy lines with the props. I used to have an AZ46 which had the anchor in a hawse pipe under the bow and it was very easy for the crew person at the bow to drop the bow lines but not notice that one of the lazy line had caught on the anchor with the inevitable result that when I went forward on the engines, the line would go tight and get caught in the props. There were one or two near divorces over that

 

[NGM]

1) Presumably we use our own lines to secure our stern, rather than lines already attached to the dock? If so, do you put a bowline in the end of each line and attach the loop end to the bollard in order to attach to the dock, before then pulling (winching) tight once the bow is secure as normal?

You'll likely leave your home berth fixed lines in situ. It's worth considering an extra pair of springs or snubber to take with you. If your visiting berth is exposed to wind or wash the snatch on the mooring lines won't be pleasant.