Mea culpa. I haven't touched my engine during 15 months lay-up. Damage?

[Robert Wilson]

Through laziness and a heavy work schedule I have totally neglected my engine. Previous winters I have "winterised it properly".
It is a Kubota Nanni 13HP, about 15 - 20 years old and has never missed a beat when in use.
Externally it looks very tatty, and has some surface corrosion. It needs a new starter motor.

Is it likely to be good for another 15 - 20 years work (Spring - Autumn use)?
Or have I wrecked it with acid in the unchanged oil, condensation in the bores etc etc ?

I ask because I am about to decide on a new engine (complete with shaft, prop, exhaust etc) at cost of circa £7,000.
Personal funds are under great strain all round, but I can take out a bank loan without harming my lifestyle.
I may only have 15 years of sailing left in me.

The rest of the boat is in good, sound and well maintained condition. I've just spent £1000 on a DIY repaint.

What damage might I have done by my neglect? Or am I worrying un-necessarily?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[howard easton]

worrying unnecessarily. In fact you are unlikely to have done any real damage at all, less than you would have done by regularly starting the engine up and idling out of drive. I'd be more concerned about things like sea cocks and shaft seals.

just give the boat a good service now and enjoy it.

ITS A GOOD PRACTICAL IDEA TO HAVE A CLEAN PAINTED ENGINE BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE WHEN LEAKS START . Sorry about the cap lock Anyway, just degrease and spray with a rattle can

 

[<152587>]

How long is a piece of string? How many angels can you stand on a pin head? You have asked the unanswerable. No one can assess the engine sat in front of a computer all you will get in response is a worst possible scenario. Your best course of action is to go and assess the situaton, will it turn, does it start etc. If you then perceive a problem it can be discussed to help you achieve a solution.

 

[RichardS]

Don't give the interval between oil changes a second thought Robert. The longest I've gone between oil changes was around 5 years and a subsequent examination showed the engine to be in perfect condition.

I should add that over the last 50 years I have only ever changed oil in any boat, car, motorbike based on actual engine usage and never on elapsed time.

Richard

 

[Tammany]

If it turns over and has compression chances are its perfectly fine. These old diesels are designed for rough agricultural use standing outside in all weathers. They are pretty robust.

 

[chriscallender]

If it was me I'd bolt a new starter motor on it, service the engine including change the oil and go sailing! Used engine oil doesn't eat away at metal, condensation won't have done anything significant either, I never did anything with the air intake/exhaust when I winterised my boat and it was fine.

The only thing which would be on my mind is did you drain the raw water from the heat exchanger (or put antifreeze through it)? But even it froze up and even then if there's a problem, changing a heat exchanger is a fraction of the time and money to change an engine - no point in spending 7k when the old engine will do exactly what it did 15 months ago, with only a little TLC.

I know what you mean about heavy work schedules (and laziness!), it was exactly because of that that I sold my boat since I couldn't really keep up with maintenance AND go sailing. Some days I regret that, other days I'm very happy not to have the hassles and bills.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Encouragement, indeed. And I accept the "how long is a piece of string" scenario. I've had new car engines fail and old motorbike engines never touched!

The engine turns over, as evidenced when finding the starter motor problem. There are no leaks and it has only used a reasonable amount of oil over a season's running. The water level in the header-tank stays almost constant and I've had a tube heater on during the few frosty nights/days. There has never been a problem starting.
I was worried about not having attended to it over 15 months, but it appears it was unfounded.

Thanks guys.

Of course, the first time out this year something unconnected with servicing will go bang!

I'll give it a lot of external TLC, change oil, impeller, belts etc and give the bank-balance a breather :encouragement:

 

[Skylark]

Why have you investigated the cost of a replacement engine? £7k seems a harsh penalty for the minor crime of not touching the Kubota Nanni for 15 months.

You also mention acidic oil. How many hours had the sump oil done before you walked away?

Unless there is something else of concern, like others, I don't think that I would be unduly worried. At this stage, the idea of a replacement engine would not even make my thought process. Seems a bit of an extreme solution.

Different applications but I've put two engines back into service in the last 12 months, each had been hibernating for more than 25 years. One was a Lister stationary engine, the other a Ford car engine. A bit of common sense TLC in preparation and they both fired-up and ran without problem.

Fit the new starter, make sure that oil, fuel, air and water systems are in good order and pray that the Devil hasn't been having fun with the electrickery.

Good luck.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Why have you investigated the cost of a replacement engine? £7k seems a harsh penalty for the minor crime of not touching the Kubota Nanni for 15 months.

You also mention acidic oil. How many hours had the sump oil done before you walked away?

Unless there is something else of concern, like others, I don't think that I would be unduly worried. At this stage, the idea of a replacement engine would not even make my thought process. Seems a bit of an extreme solution.

Different applications but I've put two engines back into service in the last 12 months, each had been hibernating for more than 25 years. One was a Lister stationary engine, the other a Ford car engine. A bit of common sense TLC in preparation and they both fired-up and ran without problem.

Fit the new starter, make sure that oil, fuel, air and water systems are in good order and pray that the Devil hasn't been having fun with the electrickery.

Good luck.

Initially I thought that there was major corrosion (starter motor, sump, gear box etc) but further close investigation shows otherwise - hopefully.
My engine bay is a mess and sound-deadening def needs replacing. It was a build-up of concern and tasks. Bright new engine and bay was tempting, but costs daunting.
In 2015 I did about 200 hours, or less, after major service and a few replacements prior to circumnavigation (UK).
There are a couple of minor electrikery issues, probably about £20 all told. Condensation has been a problem ever since I bought her, but it is wet up here!!

On the point of "air system", what sort of filtering should be best? At the moment there is what looks like an old lorry filter box, rusted to bungery.

 

[Plum]

Through laziness and a heavy work schedule I have totally neglected my engine. Previous winters I have "winterised it properly".
It is a Kubota Nanni 13HP, about 15 - 20 years old and has never missed a beat when in use.
Externally it looks very tatty, and has some surface corrosion. It needs a new starter motor.

Is it likely to be good for another 15 - 20 years work (Spring - Autumn use)?
Or have I wrecked it with acid in the unchanged oil, condensation in the bores etc etc ?

I ask because I am about to decide on a new engine (complete with shaft, prop, exhaust etc) at cost of circa £7,000.
Personal funds are under great strain all round, but I can take out a bank loan without harming my lifestyle.
I may only have 15 years of sailing left in me.

The rest of the boat is in good, sound and well maintained condition. I've just spent £1000 on a DIY repaint.

What damage might I have done by my neglect? Or am I worrying un-necessarily?

Thanks in anticipation.

You have already had lots of good advice, but one more thing: have you started it yet? Over a long period of rest the oil can gradually run out of all the bearing surfaces and a significant amount of wear will occur in the few seconds before the oil pump starts circulating the oil. When first time starting after a prolonged rest, ensure the battery is fully charged and all starter leads have excellent connections, then ensure it will not start by ensuring the stop control is activated (or some other means) then crank until the oil presure light goes out (dont crank for longer than about 20 seconds as the exhaust will overfill with cooling water) then deactivate the stop control and let it start.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Skylark]

On the point of "air system", what sort of filtering should be best? At the moment there is what looks like an old lorry filter box, rusted to bungery.

Pretty much anything you can lay your hands on and make fit to the induction system. Many older boat engines have a simple wire mesh air filter. I'm sure that Google and eBay will be of help. Inlet air filters should offer very low restriction to flow. High restriction equals lower power output, poor combustion and higher fuel consumption.

Good advice from Plum to turn the engine over to build oil pressure before allowing it to fire. Even prior to using the starter motor I'd turn it over by hand, spanner on the crank, to make sure it rotates freely (disable its ability to fire first, of course)

And while you're at it. Get that engine bay cleaned! I don't like to see dirty engines

 

[Robert Wilson]

You have already had lots of good advice, but one more thing: have you started it yet?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Not started it yet, but it turned over briefly before I found the starter motor problem.
I shall heed your much appreciated advice.,
Thank you

Pretty much anything you can lay your hands on and make fit to the induction system. Many older boat engines have a simple wire mesh air filter. I'm sure that Google and eBay will be of help. Inlet air filters should offer very low restriction to flow. High restriction equals lower power output, poor combustion and higher fuel consumption.

Good advice from Plum to turn the engine over to build oil pressure before allowing it to fire. Even prior to using the starter motor I'd turn it over by hand, spanner on the crank, to make sure it rotates freely (disable its ability to fire first, of course)

And while you're at it. Get that engine bay cleaned! I don't like to see dirty engines

Thank you for that.
and YES, I shall be cleaning the hole lot. I'm highly embarrassed by it - but to fair, it wasn't in the best of nick when I bought her.
No excuse, I ought to have done it in the first winter lay-up.

 

[captainboo]

When I bought my boat the engine hadn't been run for 6-7 years and was bought as seen!
Engine is a Ford 1.6 Fiesta/Escort block.

Checked as follows:

1) Turned over by hand.
2) Glow plugs removed and a tablespoon of oil poured into each cylinder and then turned over again by hand and left for a couple of days.
3) Oil filter removed and oil pumped into system until it came out of the oil pressure switch at the top of the engine.
4) New oil and filter fitted.
5) Turned over on starter with glow plugs out to eject excess oil from pistons and distribute oil throughout engine internally.
6) Plugs replaced and started.
7) Initially ran rough and wouldn't accelerate until governor freed up (used fuel through feed and return lines!)
8) Has run for the last 4 years without fault and doesn't burn any oil just occasional drip from rear crankshaft seal.

 

[lw395]

The biggest trouble with not winterising yacht engines is the wet exhaust IMHO.
On a twin cylinder engine, it will usually stop with one exhaust valve open, allowing condensation in the cylinder.

 

[maby]

The biggest trouble with not winterising yacht engines is the wet exhaust IMHO.
On a twin cylinder engine, it will usually stop with one exhaust valve open, allowing condensation in the cylinder.

Indeed - as others have already noted, I would suggest that the 15 months unused have probably done no serious damage, but the first 15 seconds after you start it could unless you do some sensible preparations. All the bearing surfaces are likely to be bone dry and the fuel system is probably pretty rank by now. Give it a thorough service, replace everything that should be replaced - filters etc. Consider taking out the injectors, adding a small amount of oil and turning it over slowly quite a few times to get oil circulating and clear any internal surface corrosion gently rather than having it ripped off at speed with little or no lubrication.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Indeed - as others have already noted, I would suggest that the 15 months unused have probably done no serious damage, but the first 15 seconds after you start it could unless you do some sensible preparations. All the bearing surfaces are likely to be bone dry and the fuel system is probably pretty rank by now. Give it a thorough service, replace everything that should be replaced - filters etc. Consider taking out the injectors, adding a small amount of oil and turning it over slowly quite a few times to get oil circulating and clear any internal surface corrosion gently rather than having it ripped off at speed with little or no lubrication.

Good points, yourself, and above.

Thanks.

PS:-
My previous reply mentioned my cleaning the hole lot. That was a typo, but looking at the engine compartment, it is rather apt

 

[Major_Clanger]

Some great advice Robert, to which I'd only add this:

DON'T turn the engine over much, and certainly not on the starter motor just yet. The oil that's in the sump will have trapped any metallic particles in suspension together with any water (oil can be hydroscopic). Instead, let the oil drain out overnight to get as much out as possible. Then put fresh oil in, turn the engine over until the oil pressure light goes out. Then start the engine, get the oil hot and then change it again.

It might seem excessive, but oil is cheap and there's nothing an engine likes better. Nannis are great engines and yours should be good for years to come with decent oil in it. Good luck.....

 

[Robert Wilson]

Some great advice Robert, to which I'd only add this:

DON'T turn the engine over much, and certainly not on the starter motor just yet. The oil that's in the sump will have trapped any metallic particles in suspension together with any water (oil can be hydroscopic). Instead, let the oil drain out overnight to get as much out as possible. Then put fresh oil in, turn the engine over until the oil pressure light goes out. Then start the engine, get the oil hot and then change it again.

It might seem excessive, but oil is cheap and there's nothing an engine likes better. Nannis are great engines and yours should be good for years to come with decent oil in it. Good luck.....

Exactly.
For once I was thinking on the right lines