MD2020 Stainless steel exhaust elbow

[lustyd]

That doesn’t guarantee the same materials though. Often there will be different quality items made in the same factory, sometimes rejects are sold cheap. The issue with Aliexpress is you rarely know which and without speaking the language it’s hard to ask. There are a lot of great bargains on that site but also a lot of pitfalls. Some of the extra money of buying locally (in the uk at least) is for warranty, service, legal protections etc. and sometimes that’s worth the extra.

 

[earlybird]

Apologies for thread drift, but if one bought the Ali-express item, total cost ~£140, what would the "extras" such as VAT and import duty, if any, come to? Anyone know?

 

[CJ13]

No extra’s when I bought a St St elbow from AliExpress last summer.

 

[Beneteau381]

If you use the search function I had a thread on stainless exhaust elbows. Someone bought one, like mine, a bit earlier than I did and may have further comment.

I find it sufficiently intriguing that a supplier in the UK has an identical, not similar. but identical in every facet, including the orientation of the device to be fairly confident that the UK supplied device and the Aliexpress device come from the same casting.

Jonathan

Or perhaps his web developer used a stock photo?

 

[lustyd]

Or perhaps his web developer used a stock photo?

Aliexpress wouldn’t be a web developer it’s a marketplace so its the seller putting the (often stolen) image in the product description. The sellers are sometimes factories and sometimes chancers selling cheap knock offs. There’s a skill in spotting the difference just as with any shopping. From one perspective you’re less likely to be ripped off than shopping at an overpriced chandlery.

 

[MikeBz]

A few more pics…

The crack starts at around 2 o’clock and continues clockwise for ~270 degrees:



The nut on the bottom RH stud was completely rusted - had to use screwdriver and hammer to remove it. The area around the crack and nut/stud was wet.

Looking in from the flange end:



Looking down the water injection tube - as @garymalmgren says the water goes into the space between 2 concentric tubes - a shorter larger dia outer tube is welded to the full-length exhaust tube:



Water exits the void between the tubes through a hole in the bottom of the inner tube near the exit - it’s hard to see how it could make its way back uphill & upstream to escape through the weld at the flange:



I need to go back to the boat and see if the seepage is from somewhere just above the RHS of the flange, and totally coincidental to the crack. It was a very small, slow leak - generally a teaspoon sized blob on the floor under the engine even after a sustained period of motoring.

 

[Beneteau381]

Aliexpress wouldn’t be a web developer it’s a marketplace so its the seller putting the (often stolen) image in the product description. The sellers are sometimes factories and sometimes chancers selling cheap knock offs. There’s a skill in spotting the difference just as with any shopping. From one perspective you’re less likely to be ripped off than shopping at an overpriced chandlery.

OK lets put this to bed, @Neeves says that parts4 are selling the same product that you can obtain from the chinese website, this statement based on the fact that two pix are identical! Im saying that the pix could be the same one, a stock photo, nicked or otherwise used by the people who "build" the two websites!

 

[Neeves]

OK lets put this to bed, @Neeves says that parts4 are selling the same product that you can obtain from the chinese website, this statement based on the fact that two pix are identical! Im saying that the pix could be the same one, a stock photo, nicked or otherwise used by the people who "build" the two websites!

And equally the image on the UK website may have been provided from the source in. China?..... from which the product was bought. As far as I know the UK seller makes nothing, they are a distributor. I am sure if you buy 10 or 100 units you would have no issue in asking for the original digital image (no nicking required). If you search stainless exhaust elbows the only manufacturer or the primary sources for the elbows of the design I bought, and Fowler above, are in China and use the same image. Other than Parts4 - I have only found Chinese sources - and if Parts4 sourced elsewhere I would expect the manufacturer to advertise same - or come up in a google search (as frankly I don't believe anyone investment casting these parts sells exclusively and internationally through Parts4).

Its not something I would lose any sleep over. Importantly the item I bought from Aliexpress (and that I linked to for one supplier) has been perfectly satisfactory (and came with a gasket) . JFowler, above, makes no critical comments.

But

Time will tell.

Sadly I have found an original elbow has a life of about 1,000 hours plus or minus. Failure is caused by two issues, they block with a carbon impregnated calcium deposit (that can be removed over night in a bucket of strong acid) and they corrode (rust, exacerbated by acid washing). I have found you can clean with acid once - then the elbow is so corroded that after a further 1,000hrs it 'leaks' somewhere after the second wash. The difference in cost of the elbows is not a s big an issue for me as the hassle of changing (getting the exhaust hose off the elbow is not easy) so as long as the Aliexpress elbow last longer (less prone to blockage??? cleans more easily) last longer - I'm ahead. When I took off the old elbow prior to installing the new stainless version I found the nuts severely corroded to the studs. This may be a further issue in the future.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

completely agree, my point that was p4e will charge double the going rate for the correct part (or be sued) while ali will supply the correct part sometimes at half the cost and sometimes the same part made from cheese for half the cost. The common theme is sailors paying over the odds. In this instance you're probably right that the cheese part (304) almost certainly makes no difference compared to the 316 part. In fact if this forum is to be trusted it could well be made from Cornish Yarg and would still fail due to carbon deposits at the same interval. If anything Yarg has the advantage of being passive near metals,

 

[skippeer]

My view and experience is that never use welded stainless steel exhaust elbow.

Some years ago did I ask HDI marine in US:
These are not welded. They are 100% investment cast, 316 stainless steel. Investment casting is a process using a lost wax process, a bit more info here:
Investment casting - Wikipedia

Parts4engine did not spend time on measuring the diameter for the seawater inlet when I asked (due to that had different size on the web page compared with my D2-55).
Asked HDI about the diameter and got the right size figure, then I asked HDI to change the diameter on there web page so it reflect the true diameter. Bought directly from HDI (I live in Sweden).
Been using HDI manufactured for 4 years without issues.

# # #

Parts4Engines supplied their OWN composite gasket alongside did one guy wrote in an old thread on YBW.
I have bought that gasket and will replace the one I got from HDI.

 

[Beneteau381]

And equally the image on the UK website may have been provided from the source in. China?..... from which the product was bought. As far as I know the UK seller makes nothing, they are a distributor. I am sure if you buy 10 or 100 units you would have no issue in asking for the original digital image (no nicking required). If you search stainless exhaust elbows the only manufacturer or the primary sources for the elbows of the design I bought, and Fowler above, are in China and use the same image. Other than Parts4 - I have only found Chinese sources - and if Parts4 sourced elsewhere I would expect the manufacturer to advertise same - or come up in a google search (as frankly I don't believe anyone investment casting these parts sells exclusively and internationally through Parts4).

Its not something I would lose any sleep over. Importantly the item I bought from Aliexpress (and that I linked to for one supplier) has been perfectly satisfactory (and came with a gasket) . JFowler, above, makes no critical comments.

But

Time will tell.

Sadly I have found an original elbow has a life of about 1,000 hours plus or minus. Failure is caused by two issues, they block with a carbon impregnated calcium deposit (that can be removed over night in a bucket of strong acid) and they corrode (rust, exacerbated by acid washing). I have found you can clean with acid once - then the elbow is so corroded that after a further 1,000hrs it 'leaks' somewhere after the second wash. The difference in cost of the elbows is not a s big an issue for me as the hassle of changing (getting the exhaust hose off the elbow is not easy) so as long as the Aliexpress elbow last longer (less prone to blockage??? cleans more easily) last longer - I'm ahead. When I took off the old elbow prior to installing the new stainless version I found the nuts severely corroded to the studs. This may be a further issue in the future.

Jonathan

Your reasoning is flawed. Based on a photo which could have come from anywhere, you make assumptions. The VP cast iron, again assumptions, I have found that on the three that I have changed personally, the cast iron, if left after removal, goes crumbly, so I suspect, note the word suspect, that the elements that are causing failure are doing a bit more at molecular level than is assumed. I suspect that heat plus sea water plus acidic exhaust gases getting in to the cast iron at molecular level are causing it to crumble rather than a straight forward oxidation process.

 

[Neeves]

Your reasoning is flawed. Based on a photo which could have come from anywhere, you make assumptions. The VP cast iron, again assumptions, I have found that on the three that I have changed personally, the cast iron, if left after removal, goes crumbly, so I suspect, note the word suspect, that the elements that are causing failure are doing a bit more at molecular level than is assumed. I suspect that heat plus sea water plus acidic exhaust gases getting in to the cast iron at molecular level are causing it to crumble rather than a straight forward oxidation process.

I think you are assuming in terms of the photos that I am wrong - who cares, no-one except you. All people want is a new elbow and the jury is out on whether a cheap Aliexpress elbow is cost effective vs a Parts4eng vs a fabricated stainless vs a genuine Volvo part. Some of us are trying the Aliexpress route - wait and see how we report back. You are also suggesting the cast elbows don't corrode... who cares - people simply want an elbow that lasts - whatever the mechanism of failure.

You may well be correct, or not, in you assumptions and pontifications

Does it matter?

The elbows block - end of story - or acid treat and you might double life. I never had one crumble - but I've only changed 6. . Blockage timing may be a function of the amount of dissolved salts, Ca and Mg (just another suggestion for you to worry about)..

Why do I think you are bored.....?

Jonathan

 

[peteK]

Apologies for thread drift, but if one bought the Ali-express item, total cost ~£140, what would the "extras" such as VAT and import duty, if any, come to? Anyone know?
[/QUOTE

Aliexpress add on 20% vat on advertised price,ebay and Amazon its included in the price.

 

[Beneteau381]

I think you are assuming in terms of the photos that I am wrong - who cares, no-one except you. All people want is a new elbow and the jury is out on whether a cheap Aliexpress elbow is cost effective vs a Parts4eng vs a fabricated stainless vs a genuine Volvo part. Some of us are trying the Aliexpress route - wait and see how we report back. You are also suggesting the cast elbows don't corrode... who cares - people simply want an elbow that lasts - whatever the mechanism of failure.

You may well be correct, or not, in you assumptions and pontifications

Does it matter?

The elbows block - end of story - or acid treat and you might double life. I never had one crumble - but I've only changed 6. . Blockage timing may be a function of the amount of dissolved salts, Ca and Mg (just another suggestion for you to worry about)..

Why do I think you are bored.....?

Jonathan

Mine dont block, I use the engine properly. The changes I have made were because of use by previous owners. The last elbow, I made out of 316 about 10 years ago. I had it off a couple of months ago to check it, All good, clean as a whistle, so no need to acid treat, is that an Oz maintenance thing? Seems a strange regime to me. Proper use of the engine negates elbow blockage, or are you just "sledging" ?