MBY kill cord campaign – what do you think?

[Hugo_Andreae]

Last month I asked you to suggest ways of improving the design of the kill cord to try and avoid the kind of tragic accident that happened in Padstow.

We had a load of interesting ideas from you, which we have summarised at the bottom of this post. Now I’d like you all to let me know what you make of them by answering these three questions.

1) Which of the six below suggestions do you favour?

2) If they were proved to be reliable, would you consider using one of these systems on your engine/boat?

3) How much would you be prepared to pay for a more user-friendly solution like this?

The major outboard engine manufacturers and boating bodies seem reluctant to consider any kind of change so I’d really appreciate your views.

Thanks

Hugo

Forumites suggestions

Wireless kill cords
Like a conventional kill cord but uses Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tags in the form of a wristband or clip on fob (it could double up as a key cover to ensure you have to remove it before use). This would avoid any tangles and enable the helmsman to move around the boat without having to clip on and off. These RFID tags require no battery, are 100% waterproof, cheap to manufacture and only work over a few feet so would cut the engine as soon as radio contact is lost.

Helm sensor
Some form of pressure pad or optical sensor in the seat, floor or the wheel itself with a three-second delay to take account of momentary weightlessness when jumping over waves or moving out of position.

Spring loaded throttle
A spring or electronic throttle which gradually returns to idle if pressure is not continually applied to it. This is what the RNLI use in their inshore RIBs.

Legislation
Make wearing a kill cord a legal requirement on any boat fitted with one. It worked with seatbelts and motorcycle helmets so why not kill cords?

Better training and awareness
A widespread media campaign backed up by RYA training and RNLI advice encouraging people to use their kill cords to change attitudes

No change
The tragic accident in Padstow has done more to ensure people use kill cords than any amount of legislation, training or technological improvements.

 

[Whitelighter]

I personally don't like any suggestion that will add complexity to a boat. This just adds cost and quite probably the increased likelihood that ill be say at the dock waiting for another engineer because the blooming thing doesn't work.

We have a system that works fine - if it's used.

If people are stupid enough not to use it then don't burden me with cost and complexity. Isn't it about time we stopped nannying people in this country. What happened to the individual being responsible for their actions?

My vote is do nothing - it's the start of a slippery slope to more legislation on all aspects of recreational boating if you start down this road.

 

[gjgm]

Training and awareness.
RNLI have their lifejacket slogan..why not one for killcords. "Kill the engine".
People can still end up not using it, but perhaps it then becomes more of a deliberate,personal decision, rather than ignorance.
I dont think much a device more technically clever will help much, and as you say in the mag, the change probably needs to start in USA, and they arent going to take the risk of a new system re liability.

 

[David2452]

Training and awareness, also sadly the occasional tradgedy which I guess goes to awareness. Since Padstow I have noticed that most of the kids playing about marinas in tenders are using them, not something I used to see (or do myself) often.

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

Training and awareness, also sadly the occasional tradgedy which I guess goes to awareness. Since Padstow I have noticed that most of the kids playing about marinas in tenders are using them, not something I used to see (or do myself) often.

That's what everyone said when someone was killed in similar circumstances during the Southampton Boat Show in 2000 but after a few years everyone forgot about it and slipped out of the habit again. Isn't it time we came up with a better soltuion that is both more user friendly and harder to avoid/forget/ignore?

 

[Nos4r2]

The key to 'new system' is more user friendly though. I can't see anything thats not technobabble or bloatware being proposed so far.

At the moment the system we have, if it fails the engine still runs. It's easy to use and is easy to test.

So far every other 'alternative' could at best only be considered a backup system to augment the use of the current system. The current system is the ONLY system that works across the board.


We NEED better education, somewhere that it's obvious-like signs next to slipways.

 

[Whitelighter]

That's what everyone said when someone was killed in similar circumstances during the Southampton Boat Show in 2000 but after a few years everyone forgot about it and slipped out of the habit again. Isn't it time we came up with a better soltuion that is both more user friendly and harder to avoid/forget/ignore?

Why don't you just make it mandatory to have a pro skipper on every boat, with the pre-requisite insurances and liability. That should mean a) no-one is in danger ever again and b) as so often seems to be the overriding desire, if it does go wrong we have someone to blame and sue.

Leave it alone, you can't legislate against stupidity and frankly there is enough interference in our lives already.

 

[Otter]

If the threat to your child's life is not sufficient then what will be a good enough motivator? The chap in Padstow presumably knew the risks and chose to ignore them. That will always happen with human beings. Frankly the remarkable thing is that there are so very few accidents like this. It does suggest that most people manage the risks intelligently and usually take adequate precautions. The kill cord is an effective, simple and low cost device that works, if you take your kids out in a high speed RIB and don't use it then training etc is hardly going to change things. He was careless and profoundly unlucky but not using the kill cord was a conscious decision on his part - like choosing not put a seat belt on his child in the car.

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

Why don't you just make it mandatory to have a pro skipper on every boat, with the pre-requisite insurances and liability. That should mean a) no-one is in danger ever again and b) as so often seems to be the overriding desire, if it does go wrong we have someone to blame and sue.

Leave it alone, you can't legislate against stupidity and frankly there is enough interference in our lives already.

I'm not suggesting any kind of legislation or interference but I can't help thinking that this is an area in which relatively simple, proven technology such as RFID tags could make the helman's life simpler and safer than a rather crude and not very user friendly device such as a kill cord.

Car airbags are vastly more complex and expensive than a wireless kill cord but I don't hear too many people complaining about them.

 

[Nos4r2]

Possibly we need some kind of shock tactic. I've unfortunately been privy to the goriest details of one killcord non-use incident and if they were made public, a lot of minds would be changed. I am absolutely not going to repeat them. They'll give children nightmares.

 

[Nos4r2]

Car airbags are vastly more complex and expensive than a wireless kill cord but I don't hear too many people complaining about them.

They don't always work either, and very few people actually see them in use. Bad comparison.

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

They don't always work either, and very few people actually see them in use. Bad comparison.

Nor do kill cords. The MAIB have reported on at least two incidents in which a kill cord was worn but it did not work either.

Nothing is completely infallible but that shouldn't stop us looking for wasy to make the helmsman's life safer and easier. We're quite happy to let computers fly us, steer our boat engines, apply our car's brakes and any number of other safety critical devices so why not something a simple as a wireless kill cord?

 

[Nos4r2]

Nor do kill cords. The MAIB have reported on at least two incidents in which a kill cord was worn but it did not work either.

Nothing is completely infallible but that shouldn't stop us looking for wasy to make the helmsman's life safer and easier. We're quite happy to let computers fly us, steer our boat engines, apply our car's brakes and any number of other safety critical devices so why not something a simple as a wireless kill cord?

And testing said killcords would have eliminated that. You can try testing your car airbag if you like, but I wouldn't recommend it.

The more complex the solution is, the more likely it is to fail. I'm not against an alternative, but it's got to be realistic. Nothing so far offered is realistic.

 

[gjgm]

. He was careless and profoundly unlucky but not using the kill cord was a conscious decision on his part -

You have seen more reports than most of us? Or are you making rather unpleasant assumptions?

 

[gjgm]

That's what everyone said when someone was killed in similar circumstances during the Southampton Boat Show in 2000 but after a few years everyone forgot about it and slipped out of the habit again. Isn't it time we came up with a better soltuion that is both more user friendly and harder to avoid/forget/ignore?

Well, that is indeed your question.. most people seem to be saying NO.
I appreciate that there are alot more cars than boats, but we seem prepared to live with the risks of driving that cause 3000+ deaths a year on the roads. I am not sure 2000 was the last time there was a killcord related death, but that was 13 years ago.. which is an amazingly long time in my book (40,000 or so road deaths).
Maybe more people die falling out of their bosuns chair or slipping off the pontoon, for example.

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

Well, that is indeed your question.. most people seem to be saying NO.
I appreciate that there are alot more cars than boats, but we seem prepared to live with the risks of driving that cause 3000+ deaths a year on the roads. I am not sure 2000 was the last time there was a killcord related death, but that was 13 years ago.. which is an amazingly long time in my book (40,000 or so road deaths).
Maybe more people die falling out of their bosuns chair or slipping off the pontoon, for example.

Not the last kill cord related death by any means. There were 2 deaths in 2007, 1 death in 2006, 2 deaths in 2005 for instance and plenty more injuries. In fact the MAIB has investigated kill cord related incidents in every one of the last 10 years except 2008. Of course these are small numbers when compared to car accidents due to the sheer numbers of cars on the roads but it shouldn't stop us trying to reduce them even further, particulalry if it comes with the added benefit of a more user friendly device.

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

And testing said killcords would have eliminated that. You can try testing your car airbag if you like, but I wouldn't recommend it.

The more complex the solution is, the more likely it is to fail. I'm not against an alternative, but it's got to be realistic. Nothing so far offered is realistic.

Why do you not think a wireless kill cord is realistic? Aftermarket solutions already exist, I've tried them and they work fine. However, I can't help thinking that if an outboard engine or major sprotsboat manufacturer decided to make its own system as a standard or optional extra it would be even slicker and more affordable

 

[l'escargot]

... so why not something a simple as a wireless kill cord?

Perhaps because just like a wired kill cord if someone chooses not to use it they can. What would there be to stop someone from just clipping the sender to the ignition key because they haven't got a pocket in their shorts to put it in or some other such spurious reason?

It would be just as easy to circumvent and have more potential for technical failure than the current system.

 

[rlw]

After reading the debate on here I walked into my local marina shop in Holland. They had a wireless kill cord system on sale so it appears it exists already.
Will try to remember the website next time
rlw

 

[gjgm]

Not the last kill cord related death by any means. There were 2 deaths in 2007, 1 death in 2006, 2 deaths in 2005 for instance and plenty more injuries. In fact the MAIB has investigated kill cord related incidents in every one of the last 10 years except 2008. Of course these are small numbers when compared to car accidents due to the sheer numbers of cars on the roads but it shouldn't stop us trying to reduce them even further, particulalry if it comes with the added benefit of a more user friendly device.

Thanks for the update.. I wondered why you refered back to 2000.
Let us say it is one death a year -and we can agree that is one wasted life. I am not sure how one ascertains killcord related injuries, but...)
I dont know how many people use and how often a kill cord could be used a year, but this seems a remarkably small death rate given the number of churning props and GRP hulls. The point for me is that there is a very effective mechanism for stopping the engine already. Agreed, it might fail, but just put the damn thing on. You might argue that there is a risk of oversight or forgetfulness, but we all undertake risky events each day and I am going to make a wild guess that none of all the events you cite were not caused by someone with severe mental difficulties. So, you make a deliberate decision to wear or not to wear a killcord, and you and your crew face the consequences of that decision. That alone should make people keenly WANT to wear one, I think.