MBM's Spot the Pot campaign

[Philiz]

There are dozens and dozens of pots around the coast of North Wales and Anglesey but you can count on one hand the ones which are correctly and clearly marked. A pal of mine was unfortunate enough to pick one up at Porth Dinnlaen earlier this year, ended up having to give the fisherman £40 for the damage. Yes I know you'd all have told him to whistle for it, but easier said than done when you're surrounde by sweaty fisherman and boats bigger than yours! Luckily a diver pal eventually untangled his props and there is no damage resulting from the incident.

 

[henryf]

Surely there are marine laws in place which allow damages to be claimed against the owners of poorly marked pots? Enforce them. All pots must be marked with easily identifiable ownership marks linked to a public database. If you can't see a pot and it causes damage then persue the owner for financial damages.

The authorities can patrol areas and pull and poorly marked pots for re-sale or return at cost. How is it that we all see badly marked pots on a daily basis and yet nothing is done. We aren't just talking about boat owners out on a jolly being delayed for 10 minutes whilst they clear a line, we are talking boats totally disabled with potentially fatal consequences.

I am always amazed at just where many pots are placed. The middle of navigable channels, entrances to harbours and rivers. Are there no limits on their placement?

I have no desire to kill an industry (the fisheries protection people are doing that already with their insistence that perfectly edible dead fish are thrown back in the water by the thousand tonnes), but you can't carry on if your activities put people's lives at risk.

It's like digging holes in the road then not marking them properly.

Henry

 

[RogerRat]

Good thread this one.

I found the main problem is that there is no consistancy in pot marking. They range through anything that will float from a plastic bottle to a coloured buoy, especially in the Solent and approaches.

I have found that the easiest to spot are on the route east of Selsey towards Brighton and Eastbourne. They are more consistantly using black flags on poles about 3 feet high. The black flag is easier to see in most conditions as they give a good silhouette.

I would be quite happy with this if it were made to be a standard and enforced as a danger to navigation.

Ideally though an illuminated mark would be better.

 

[Piers]

When Play d'eau's stbd prop was caught by a pot in the Alderney Race in 2003, the tide was at slack and the sea was calm.

I managed to cut the line and free the boat, but when I was about to tie the severed line to the marker I thought "blow it, I'll just dump the line so the fisherman loses the pot."

However, I didn't, so the fisherman kept his pot.

On arrival in Guernsey the diver removed the tangled mess and made two comments.

First, that many pots around thre French coast now use a carbon fibre rope which is almost impossibole to cut with a knife. Anyoner heard of this?

Second, had I just let the line go, the pot would have been lost. The catch would die and rot, attracting more catch which in turn would die and rot, attracting more catch, etc, etc. In other words, a lost pot becomes a ruthless killing machine.

I'm pleased I didn't drop the line, however cross I was.

 

[Csail]

English coast north of ilfracombe was a nightmare.

 

[Csail]

When Play d'eau's stbd prop was caught by a pot in the Alderney Race in 2003, the tide was at slack and the sea was calm.

I managed to cut the line and free the boat, but when I was about to tie the severed line to the marker I thought "blow it, I'll just dump the line so the fisherman loses the pot."

However, I didn't, so the fisherman kept his pot.

On arrival in Guernsey the diver removed the tangled mess and made two comments.

First, that many pots around thre French coast now use a carbon fibre rope which is almost impossibole to cut with a knife. Anyoner heard of this?

Second, had I just let the line go, the pot would have been lost. The catch would die and rot, attracting more catch which in turn would die and rot, attracting more catch, etc, etc. In other words, a lost pot becomes a ruthless killing machine.

I'm pleased I didn't drop the line, however cross I was.

pull the pot up....salvage rights.

 

[hlb]

Beat you all. Picked up a buoy in Polpero, marked Visitors. Little known to me, a fisher man had taken it over and used it for his lobster keep nets.

MF's rope cutters manfully chomped through the umpteen ropes, whilst other fishermen looked on with encouragement.

So that was the end of his lobsters and also the end of MF's rope cutters.

 

[PilotWolf]

Playing Devil's Advocate but...

Covering many '000 of miles each year for a good few years I still have failed to snag a pot/net marker or line. The only exception being one on a towed sonar fish whilst working between the markers at slack water.

Good luck or good look out?

PW.

 

[neale]

Playing Devil's Advocate but...

Covering many '000 of miles each year for a good few years I still have failed to snag a pot/net marker or line. The only exception being one on a towed sonar fish whilst working between the markers at slack water.

Good luck or good look out?

PW.

Probably a bit of both.

I have been snagged twice, once I saw the pot and gave it a wide berth but with a very long length of floating line attached, not a wide enough berth.

The second time just didn't see it, despite looking out for stuff at the time, just came to a sudden halt.

 

[matt_thomas]

Petition

Hi everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to share your stories and kick a few ideas about. It's all really very helpful.

What would be even better would be if you could go to: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/spot-the-pot-with-motor-boats-monthly.html, have a read and sign up to show your support.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[blueglass]

Playing Devil's Advocate but...

Covering many '000 of miles each year for a good few years I still have failed to snag a pot/net marker or line. The only exception being one on a towed sonar fish whilst working between the markers at slack water.

Good luck or good look out?

PW.

sorry - good luck
I'm sure the 1000's of us who HAVE snagged up were also keeping a good look out - I certainly was.
No matter how good a look out you keep, you will never see the one pulled just below the surface at high water. I think you might find black on black on a night passage pretty hard to look out for as well.

 

[Gemini]

Pot Markers

Travelling from Solent to Brighton Saturday afternoon via Looe Channel
there was a small orange bouy adjacent to both the marker bouys for the channel and streaching out shorewards, could be wrong but looks like pot or net markers
Nice place to snagg something ?

Regards

 

[strakeryrius]

Playing Devil's Advocate but...

Covering many '000 of miles each year for a good few years I still have failed to snag a pot/net marker or line. The only exception being one on a towed sonar fish whilst working between the markers at slack water.

Good luck or good look out?

PW.

Agree with Neale - probably a bit of both.

The one time I picked up a 6' length of polypropylene rope around my starboard props there were 4 of us on watch and none of us saw it at all - probably floating just beneath the surface.

 

[PilotWolf]

Maybe because it commercial operations?

3 props( either 1 or 2 in use at a time), 3 rudders. A lot of the time as low speeds. A lot of the time inshore. I'm more inclined to say good look out.

If it is a high risk area we use searchlights to look for them so being dark doesn't make that much difference. Working in a particular area we tend to log them on the plotter so we have a good idea where they are when towing gear.

The 'problem' areas are well known - just look at the postings in this thread yet it seems that people still get caught there...

W.

 

[blueglass]

with respect - your boating is possibly not really typical. To suggest that its ok to leave pots unmarked and throw the responsiblity onto other skippers to keep a look out is just not acceptable. To check forums and find where problem areas are is also totally impractical. Some of us range far and wide, pulling into an unknown anchorage or harbour every other night - it is totally impossible to have local pot knowledge of every inch of the coastline.
Navigating at night by searchlight is also not feasible for a variety of reasons, and as for knowing which are the problem areas - they all are!!

 

[PilotWolf]

with respect - your boating is possibly not really typical. To suggest that its ok to leave pots unmarked and throw the responsiblity onto other skippers to keep a look out is just not acceptable. To check forums and find where problem areas are is also totally impractical. Some of us range far and wide, pulling into an unknown anchorage or harbour every other night - it is totally impossible to have local pot knowledge of every inch of the coastline.
Navigating at night by searchlight is also not feasible for a variety of reasons, and as for knowing which are the problem areas - they all are!!

So because my 'boating' is not typical my opinions don't count? Perhaps you could also point out where I said its OK to leave pots unmarked? Or rather marked in a way you don't like.

We work all around the UK coast and parts of Europe and simply having a working knowledge of the seabed from a chart - assuming you do look at a chart when passage planning - gives clues to where the risk is higher.

Also I get the impression that a lot of these foulings occur to local boats.

The IRPCS require in law that you keep a good lookout at all times by available methods (OK I accept that that is more for collision avoidance). There is to my knowledge no law that states how a pot/net is to be marked other than the requirement in a by-law from local fisheries committees, which usually requires PLN or licence number for example.

Everyone has to accept some responsibility for their actions - fishermen and leisure boater.

I was simply pointing out statistically that the risk probably isn't that high given the number of miles and hours I cover(ed) without incident compared with for example a leisure boater who maybe manages several weekends and maybe a week sailing trip.

As for all areas being a problem? I think that is somewhat of an over exaggeration...


PW.

 

[blueglass]

So because my 'boating' is not typical my opinions don't count? Perhaps you could also point out where I said its OK to leave pots unmarked? Or rather marked in a way you don't like.

We work all around the UK coast and parts of Europe and simply having a working knowledge of the seabed from a chart - assuming you do look at a chart when passage planning - gives clues to where the risk is higher.

Also I get the impression that a lot of these foulings occur to local boats.

The IRPCS require in law that you keep a good lookout at all times by available methods (OK I accept that that is more for collision avoidance). There is to my knowledge no law that states how a pot/net is to be marked other than the requirement in a by-law from local fisheries committees, which usually requires PLN or licence number for example.

Everyone has to accept some responsibility for their actions - fishermen and leisure boater.

I was simply pointing out statistically that the risk probably isn't that high given the number of miles and hours I cover(ed) without incident compared with for example a leisure boater who maybe manages several weekends and maybe a week sailing trip.

As for all areas being a problem? I think that is somewhat of an over exaggeration...


PW.

I have not suggested that leisure boaters do not need to keep a good look out or take responsibilty for our actions, but you seem to be suggesting that that if we keep a good look out and check our charts first, then all will be OK. I don't suggest either that your opinions don't count, I simply disagree with them.

 

[Cheekybrat]

Maybe because it commercial operations?

3 props( either 1 or 2 in use at a time), 3 rudders. A lot of the time as low speeds. A lot of the time inshore. I'm more inclined to say good look out.

If it is a high risk area we use searchlights to look for them so being dark doesn't make that much difference. Working in a particular area we tend to log them on the plotter so we have a good idea where they are when towing gear.

The 'problem' areas are well known - just look at the postings in this thread yet it seems that people still get caught there...

W.

me thinks someone who says things like this is either stupid or just needs it to happen to them, maybe I'm wrong though. I've always found that anyone who pushes their luck by thinking they are too good or clever to ever get caught out lands with a big bump!
Nick Heath (anytime I say anything it comes back and bites me)

 

[PilotWolf]

me thinks someone who says things like this is either stupid or just needs it to happen to them, maybe I'm wrong though. I've always found that anyone who pushes their luck by thinking they are too good or clever to ever get caught out lands with a big bump!
Nick Heath (anytime I say anything it comes back and bites me)

Nope. I see it as good risk management and never suggested that we were too good or clever either - just careful and ensure a good look out is kept..

I have been unlucky enough to catch bits of an old trawl - twice almost a year to the day between them and in the same area and watch!

Just trying to make the point that IMHO actual foulings are less likely to occur than are being suggested even when the risk is increased by working in known potting areas and during dark hours too. As far as I am aware the other Skipper hasn't managed to pick one up either.

Not sure what years MBM is taking its figures from but if 2010, then 289 launches out of their 8713 launches it equates to less than 3.32%.

As an aside we don't have prop cutters as there is no room to fit them so its not even a case that we just didn't know we had caught something.

W.

 

[MY littlebirchwoo]

I'm not sure the 'good lookout' high and mighty stance is one to take here... Also pointing out the 'avoid' known areas either... I often find myself around the East Anglian Coast where we have literally thousands of these thisngs, some well marked, but mostly not.

Oddly what about 'recommended Yacht Tracks which moves leisure traffic around the busy Harwich VTS area...literally strewn with little black bottles, and small floats, some of which, particularly in the Deben area, have drift nets strewn between them..

I too have never snagged one, but I wouldn't say it was so much due to a good lookout as much as good luck, as I've also been in and out of these waters for years commercially and believe me, if these nets and pots can bring a 146m vessel to a halt and force it to return to Parkeston Quay and require removal by specialist divers ..... as it did when I worked with DFDS some years ago (Now you would think that 46500 hp would be enough to break this stuff wouldn't you)... then it is evident that there is literally no care or consideration by these fishermen for anyone else except their own pockets!