May the Wind Force be With You - Why

[MainlySteam]

It has struck me that the UK forumites usually refer to wind speed in terms of Beaufort Force and the UK marine weather is given in the same way.

Here (NZ), Australia and USA and many other nations the weather is always in knots for windspeed (for coastal and high seas) and it is not often one hears "Force" used at all by anyone. I am curious if there is some particular reason that the UK and the forumites still use "Force" or is it just tradition (which is not necessarily a bad thing)?

Thanks in anticipation

John



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[TheBoatman]

John
I believe that it's a UK thing as our weather forecasters give wind in both Beaufort and miles / hr. It is not unusual for our forcasts to have mph over land and F numbers over water.

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[Shanty]

I suppose its a bit like the metric vs imperial discussion. Beaufort is based on related natural phenomena, whereas knots are based on unrelated units of measurement. So for seat-of-the-pants type use, Beaufort tends to be easier to estimate, and easier to relate to practical actions (such as taking in a reef). Knots are a more precise measure, and useful for things like boat tuning, but they tend to hide the fact that the windspeed is never truly constant.

When I walk out of the house in the morning, I tend to think about the wind in Beaufort terms.

When I am out sailing, and the wind instruments tell me that the 18 knot breeze has become a 21 knot breeze, I think about reefing. When I decide that the Force 5 breeze has turned into a Force 6 breeze, its time to take in a reef.

When I am drifting along looking for the best wind, the difference between 4 knots and 6 knots matters a great deal.

I guess I use both systems for different things, but I prefer Beaufort for the broader picture, because it creates a clearer picture in my mind of what is going on.

(above is the long answer, below the short answer)

Dunno, probably because we are used to using Beaufort.

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[johnsomerhausen]

The Beaufort scale is more a sailors´practice, meteorologists usually use knots. Scandinavian sailors usually speak of metres per second. The use of the Beaufort scale is not limited to the UK, the French, Belgian and Dutch marine weather forecasts also use it. Though a continental European, I prefer the Beaufort scale as I feel that the precise knots figure gives you a false sense of precision and the the use of the scale gives a crisper and more easily understood message; to wit "Force 5 to 6" is crispoer than "15 to 20 knots increasing to 20 to 25". The verbosity of US marine forecasts, which don´t have the European names for sea areas is also annoying. Instead of saying , for instance "Wight" they´ll say "From Sandy Hook to Montauk Point up to 20 miles offshore". Quiote a mouthfull, no ?
john

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[oldharry]

The Beaufort scale is an English thing born of us idiosyncratic islanders, who still prefer our own Pound to the Euro (TB please note...). Personally I have to convert tempratures from Centrigrade to Fahrenheit to see how warm it is. I KNOW the difference in the feel of things between 45 and 55 F, but I still cant work out whether I need my coat on if todays forecast max is 10C.

So the Beaufort thing is what we are used to, and has more meaning in terms of the conditions we are likely to meet. Any Uk sailor will know the difference for his boat betwen F4 and F5. But wind speed rarely remains constant, and F4 is a much more realistic way of referring to a wind regime than saying its blowing 15 kts today. I bet it isnt! It will be 12 - 16 knots, which is precisely what the Beaufort scale tells you.

I havent a clue if I need to reef at 20 metres a second wind speed, until it happens! And my ani-ani- whatsit meter can switch to Ms/Second if I wanted to, so any Scandinavian is welcome to come for a sail with me confident he will understand my instrumentation. Pity it doesnt show beaufort, as I find myself always mentally converting the Kts/sec figure to Beaufort! Simply because it means more in my tiny mind....

Anyway Admiral Beaufort who started it all was an Englishman too....

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[cpedw]

There is an interesting explanation of the history of Beaufort by <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.franksingleton.clara.net/beaufort.html> Frank Singleton </A>. His main justification for still using it is that it's sufficiently accurate for sailors and is unambiguous. You'll not be left wondering if the forecaster said 15 or 50!
Personally, I think it's more of a tradition thing while using knots or mph is probably easier for a computer generated forecast.

Derek

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[MainlySteam]

Thanks for the link Derek. I have bookmarked the site too - looks interesting.

John

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[pragmatist]

Oh dear - some of the weather web sites do it in km/hr instead ! Force or knots I can cope with !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

 

[jamesjermain]

It's certainly not 'just tradition' The Beaufort scale is widely used in Europe and understood by all European maritime countries. The Scandinavians use m/s for official communiques but when talking to Norse yachtsmen, Beaufort is a perfectly acceptable language.

Beaufort says more about conditions than just wind. It relates to sea conditions as well and is carefully judged so that each Force has a particular significance for most yacht skippers:

0 - don't bother
1- not really worth trying but bung the main up in case
2 - the quick boys can sail - we'll motor sail
3 - that's better Fred. Turn the engine off please
4 - what a great day!
5 - exhilerating stuff, glad we left the children behind
6 - Yes, Darling! All right we'll turn back now.
7 - You can if you like, I'm having another pint
8 - Silly buggers
9 - You've got to be joking!
10 - Well at least my life asssurance was up to date so the family will be looked after

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[Rowana]

Nice one, James

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[Sybarite]

<< but I still cant work out whether I need my coat on if todays forecast max is 10C. >>

A very simple method is to double the figure and add 30.

10 x 2 = 20 + 30 = 50
10 * 9/5 = 18 +32 = 50

This was coincidence but it's never very different.

John

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

The other ambiguity is the television weather forecast, is it mph or kts.

mph means diddly to me, and I have to convert it twice, I wish the met office would use beaufort on the wind balloons when giving coastal forecasts.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[MainlySteam]

Well the windspeed on the TV forecasts here are something else - it is given in "kays" whatever they are.

Like "Wellington will have 20 kay southerlies today"?

John

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[MainlySteam]

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John

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

From my short time in Wellington, I am surprised they don't alter the scale.

As the wind never drops below F6 that should be called F0 and count up from there. Then lets look at temperature and dew point, both could be reset to higher values too.

I remember being stood on the roof of Te Papa holding on for grim life, and that was a nice afternoon. If you sail from Wellington you have my admiration.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[jamesjermain]

Ah! That Wellington. I couldn't think what the Iron Duke had to do with Admiral Beaufort

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[longjohnsadler]

I think, as people have suggested, it is more descriptive.
In similar fashion a small unit of measurement (a 'midges'), the minimum charge in a boatyard (a 'monkey') or the ability to reach the later stages of a tournament (well, lets not go there).
What a rich linguistic tradition you chaps have inherited.

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