Mastervolt Li-On Battteries

[richardabeattie]

PBO have given these a plug. Li - Ons hold their charge and are lighter but much more expensive. But would I also have to scrap my Adverc charge controller and get something different?

 

[Pye_End]

If it is the ones that I looked at, then take care over their capacity. They may not be as big as you think.

 

[pvb]

PBO have given these a plug. Li - Ons hold their charge and are lighter but much more expensive. But would I also have to scrap my Adverc charge controller and get something different?

Scrapping your Adverc would be the least of your problems! The Mastervolt Li-ion batteries are hugely expensive ( the equivalent of around £1300 per 100Ah) and, although they claim a lifetime of 2000 cycles, are only guaranteed for 2 years, which perhaps indicates that this is early days for them. Li-ion batteries will drop in price over the next few years, and then they may be a viable proposition for boatowners.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Scrapping your Adverc would be the least of your problems! The Mastervolt Li-ion batteries are hugely expensive ( the equivalent of around £1300 per 100Ah) and, although they claim a lifetime of 2000 cycles, are only guaranteed for 2 years, which perhaps indicates that this is early days for them. Li-ion batteries will drop in price over the next few years, and then they may be a viable proposition for boatowners.

One caveat: you can flatten a Li-ion battery but you can only safely discharge Pb-acid to 50%, so a Mastervolt 30Ah hour battery is equivalent to a 60Ah sloshy one. That makes it only about five times as expensive. I agree completely about the longevity, though I think it's improving and that their first Li-ion boat batteries were only good for 500 cycles.

Unless one has a pressing need, I think one waits until they are only twice as expensive.

 

[pvb]

One caveat: you can flatten a Li-ion battery but you can only safely discharge Pb-acid to 50%, so a Mastervolt 30Ah hour battery is equivalent to a 60Ah sloshy one.

Mastervolt's 2000 cycles life claim is based on only 80% DOD.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Mastervolt's 2000 cycles life claim is based on only 80% DOD.

OK, that makes it a bit more expensive to buy but a bit less expensive to keep. I wonder how many cycles you get at 100% discharge, or even if the control systems allow that.

 

[earlybird]

. I wonder how many cycles you get at 100% discharge, ..

Battery University suggests 300-500 cycles at 100% DoD. Can't see any mention of control limitation there.
Based on small batteries, if that makes any difference.

 

[macd]

The Mastervolt Li-ion batteries are hugely expensive

Not half...as are Victron. Staggering prices. (I assume the Mastervolt jobs are actually LiFePo, as are Victron). I imagine they import them from the Far East at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Adamastor]

Mastervolt have their bigger batteries made by Sonnenschein, but the real cleverness and expense is in the integrated management system and datalogging. I was introduced to them recently and if money and weight are inversely related, I'd say that would be fine. Only the likes of the Volvo are the target market right now, I'd say, and all the others are early adopters. For the man in the street you'd be better off getting some gel batteries.

 

[richardbrennan]

I would be very wary, there is concern in the aviation world that they spontaneously catch fire.

 

[Mistroma]

Mastervolt have their bigger batteries made by Sonnenschein, but the real cleverness and expense is in the integrated management system and datalogging. I was introduced to them recently and if money and weight are inversely related, I'd say that would be fine. Only the likes of the Volvo are the target market right now, I'd say, and all the others are early adopters. For the man in the street you'd be better off getting some gel batteries.

Why Gel instead of AGM? Lower charge acceptance with Gel, older technology but similar price as far as I remember.

 

[macd]

I would be very wary, there is concern in the aviation world that they spontaneously catch fire.

You must be thinking of people and spontaneous combustion

You're right that there's concern about fires with lithium batteries, but they are not spontaneous. Lithiums (of which there are many different types) require very specific charging regimes, as implied in post #9. The many rules about lihiums in baggage are mainly predicated on accidental shorting, which is why they're stricter for 'spare' batteries than batteries in appliances.

The more publicised concern surrounded battery fires in Beoing 787 aircraft. Those were lithium cobalt oxide(LiCoO2), not the LiFePO type generally preferred for boats. LiCoO2 batteries are known for a capacity for runaway thermal faults. Although the precise causes of the Boeing fires are unknown, failures in manufacturing quality control and battery fire containment were singled out for criticism.

Finally, since your post is making an implicit comparison with more traditional batteries, perhaps you could direct us all to a source of completely safe lead-acid batteries? We'd all be very grateful.