Mast lights Question?

[cowpat]

Regretting getting into this
Quoting the RYA:
All vessels underway must show running lights during the hours of darkness. Running lights comprise 3 lights of different colours showing in 3 sectors, with white as the stern sector. Small boats under 7m and not capable of exceeding 7kn need only show a single all round white light. In addition to port and starboard lights, power vessels less than 50m must show a white masthead light, and stern light. Vessels less than 12m can combine these two in a single all round white light. Motor vessels over 50m must show white steaming light above and behind the first. I expect Match has this configuration, Rafiki does.

So it looks like the OP is ok with the single white light.

I can see your reasoning but "getting into this" is good and thanks for your conclusion. After all its what a good forum is all about and the replies have been a help to me. \chris

 

[jfm]

That difference in height between the stern and the steaming light is the other way round ( stern light lower)

You guys saying that stern lights must be lower (or higher for that matter) than steaming lights - what is your source of authority? It's not colregs or the law, so you're getting it from somewhere else.

The law is here: http://www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf

 

[cowpat]

You guys saying that stern lights must be lower (or higher for that matter) than steaming lights - what is your source of authority? It's not colregs or the law, so you're getting it from somewhere else.

The law is here: http://www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf

THANKS jfm. for giving us that link. The following is the definitive final word..... Rule23 paragraph (b) says it all in two lines. Great stuff thanks, Chris.

 

[LittleSister]

THANKS jfm. for giving us that link. The following is the definitive final word..... Rule23 paragraph (b) says it all in two lines. Great stuff thanks, Chris.

You have a hovercraft non-displacement mode?

(That's what rule 23(b) is about!)

 

[cowpat]

You have a hovercraft non-displacement mode?

(That's what rule 23(b) is about!)

Ho Ho. what a joke. My mistake. I Should have put 23 (d). chris.

 

[jfm]

23 a iv says a mobo must have a stern light. 21 c defines sternlight. 23 d i overrides that and says a 360deg white light is ok <12m. There is no rule about the height of sternlights, and no rule saying a sternlight must be higher/lower than the steaming light, hence my perplexion at some of the posts above that make up rules willy nilly.

 

[cowpat]

23 a iv says a mobo must have a stern light. 21 c defines sternlight. 23 d i overrides that and says a 360deg white light is ok <12m. There is no rule about the height of sternlights, and no rule saying a sternlight must be higher/lower than the steaming light, hence my perplexion at some of the posts above that make up rules willy nilly.

Yes, but the previous posts were put up before we had the definitive ruling kindly supplied by jfm..... C.

 

[jfm]

Yes, but the previous posts were put up before we had the definitive ruling kindly supplied by jfm..... C.

Eh? Is that a justification for you stating categorically in post #16 that the stern light must be lower than the steaming light? I didn't supply the rules and as I've said many times I think colregs is a terrible piece of work. This lights rule has been the law at least in U.K. in its current form since 1972

 

[vas]

odd my 1974 or 6 not sure Versilcraft has an all round at the rails in the bow just in front of the windlass, the green and the red and a stern light.
The allround white on the bow doubles (at least that's how I use it) as an anchor light (together with the stern as it's too low to be visible all around!)
However, there's no way in hell you're going to go somewhere at night and have this thing in front of your eyes on, night vision is completely gone and you're basically blind, hence I turn it off

How bad is that then? Boat is 13m so over the 12m rule.
Cannot see anywhere (on mine or pics of others) a steaming light, so what gives?

If I want to be a bit closer to the rules you state, I should mask the right angles on the bow light and use it as a steaming light (and avoid blinding me!) and fit an proper allround white on top of the hardtop... I may actually do that tbh, but I always thought the idea of this steaming light is silly when you have the two coloured ones visible and the stern to cover your back so to speak

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

I can't see how it is silly vas. It indicates who is stand on versus give way. That can be important and far from silly.

 

[prv]

Yes, but the previous posts were put up before we had the definitive ruling kindly supplied by jfm..... C.

Errm, I would hope that any competent skipper is familiar with the colregs without having to be specially introduced, as it were.

TBH this thread is a bit of an eye-opener.

Pete

 

[MapisM]

odd my 1974 or 6 not sure Versilcraft has an all round at the rails in the bow just in front of the windlass, the green and the red and a stern light.
The allround white on the bow doubles (at least that's how I use it) as an anchor light (together with the stern as it's too low to be visible all around!)
However, there's no way in hell you're going to go somewhere at night and have this thing in front of your eyes on, night vision is completely gone and you're basically blind, hence I turn it off

Vas, by not having a white steaming light you appear as a sailboat, which of course ain't correct.
I think that's what jfm means by stand on vs. give way.

Anyway, I don't think that's how your boat was built originally, because:

1) The allround at the bow is a heritage of the old IT habit of placing the anchor light above the point where the anchor is deployed (rather than in a higher point, visible at 360°).
In fact, that's where the allround was placed also in my old lady.
But it was a wrong habit imho, because the light can be hidden behind the superstructure to anyone approaching the boat from your stern. And turning also the stern light on is wrong too, because depending on the viewing angle of other boats they can see either one or two whites. In fact, I moved the allround up above the hardtop in my old lady, when I refitted her.

2) In my original arrangement, the allround was (correctly) wired separately from steaming lights, so obviously I could either turn it on or off while under way. But the reason why I never turned it on is that the steaming lights included a masthead white, wired together with the red/green/stern white.
I do think that also your boat must have been built with a masthead white to use together with the other steaming lights.

3) in your boots, first of all I would do what I did with my old lady, i.e. move the allround white to the top.
This way, not only it will be visible at 360° as it should, but you will also avoid any vision impairment.
Consequently, if you don't want to bother fitting a separate masthead white, you might as well get rid of the stern light and use the allround also while under way, obviously together with red and green, but wiring it separately in order to use it alone when anchored.

 

[vas]

3) in your boots, first of all I would do what I did with my old lady, i.e. move the allround white to the top.
This way, not only it will be visible at 360° as it should, but you will also avoid any vision impairment.
Consequently, if you don't want to bother fitting a separate masthead white, you might as well get rid of the stern light and use the allround also while under way, obviously together with red and green, but wiring it separately in order to use it alone when anchored.

thanks,

I'll keep the bow light and find a way to make it transmit to the right angle ahead, not difficult!
Then I'll use it with the stern one and the red-green as they should.
Main reason being that I really love these two lights, original, alloy, nicely integrated on the railing and on a custom base at the aft of the f/b.

I'll do the anchor on top of the f/b as a separate thing.
Yes, I've wired them all separately so that I can do all possible combos, although tbh when at anchor at night, I leave at least a salon light on so that the whole boat is visible...

cheers

V.

 

[cowpat]

Errm, I would hope that any competent skipper is familiar with the colregs without having to be specially introduced, as it were.

TBH this thread is a bit of an eye-opener.

Pete

Regulations can change, and do over time, and it is publications like Merchant Shipping Notices that keep people informed. One other point I think should be addressed to Pete is that he may have lost sight of the purpose of a forum. That is Positive mutual help.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks everyone.I always have trouble remembering things - especially when they don't make sense.
I've always wondered why both my steaming and stern lights were on the same switch - why not just use the anchor light.
Like Rafiki, I thought it was something to determine the size or direction of the boat.
If I don't understand something or it doesn't make sense, I will often forget it
So it is refreshing to hear JFM saying that it doesn't make sense to him either.

A number of times, I have switched the nav lights on to find that either the steaming light bulb or the rear facing light bulb has failed.
So, in these instances, I have just switched my anchor light on and thought that it was probably not the correct thing to do.
I have always changed the bulbs later when this has happened - requires climbing up the radar arch or a difficult reach over the cockpit.
Thankfully, the port and starboard lights haven't failed whilst we have been at sea but if they had, I can easily reach them under way.
So, for me, this has bee a useful thread.

However, it DOES surprise me that MapisM hasn't suggested fitting the steaming light "upside down"

 

[petem]

I've never understood this either. The rules (except for v small boats) require a steaming light and a stern light that together make up 360 deg, and a 360deg anchor light. Just one single 360 light would work perfectly well, as you say.

I wonder if versatility / practicality is the reason. My single bulb 360deg anchor light with no reflector would meet the regs but it's not going to be very bright is it? My separate forward and rearward facing lights will be a somewhat brighter, each having their on bulb plus a reflector that only has to cover 180 degrees. And at anchor, I don't need the brightness so my dimmer anchor light is perfectly fine and uses less electricity.

Also, having two sets of lights does give an element of redundancy. If one of my navigation lights fails (port, starboard or steaming) then I can switch to the anchor light (albeit I'd now be identifying myself as a vessel under 7m / 7kts but better than nothing).

 

[petem]

Thanks everyone.I always have trouble remembering things - especially when they don't make sense.
I've always wondered why both my steaming and stern lights were on the same switch - why not just use the anchor light.
Like Rafiki, I thought it was something to determine the size or direction of the boat.
If I don't understand something or it doesn't make sense, I will often forget it
So it is refreshing to hear JFM saying that it doesn't make sense to him either.

A number of times, I have switched the nav lights on to find that either the steaming light bulb or the rear facing light bulb has failed.
So, in these instances, I have just switched my anchor light on and thought that it was probably not the correct thing to do.
I have always changed the bulbs later when this has happened - requires climbing up the radar arch or a difficult reach over the cockpit.
Thankfully, the port and starboard lights haven't failed whilst we have been at sea but if they had, I can easily reach them under way.
So, for me, this has bee a useful thread.

Mike, are you saying that you can switch your anchor light on with the port and starboard lights?

You can't on my boat. Mine has a three way switch (everything off / anchor light on / left right and forward and rear masthead lights on + dashboard illumination).

Pete

 

[rafiki_]

I can have nav and anchor lights on. Regs are written so you can determine sail from power at night.

 

[Hurricane]

Mike, are you saying that you can switch your anchor light on with the port and starboard lights?

You can't on my boat. Mine has a three way switch (everything off / anchor light on / left right and forward and rear masthead lights on + dashboard illumination).

Pete

Yep the switches are weirs but yes that is an option.

 

[MapisM]

You can't on my boat. Mine has a three way switch (everything off / anchor light on / left right and forward and rear masthead lights on + dashboard illumination).

Blimey P, is that the original FL setup? Makes me wonder what were they thinking...
If being forced to keep the dashboard lights constantly on while cruising at night ain't silly, I don't know what else is! :ambivalence: