Mast ladder - try before you buy?

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slipknot

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Having read many of the posts about the pros & cons of the webbing type mast ladders, I do think that using one is likely to make getting up my 12m sparcraft mast easier for me. The Deffee ladder gets good reviews, however I'm reluctant to splash out several hundred quid to find that it doesn't improve access as much as I expect. Before I start phoning around, does anyone know if any of the manufacturers loan them out on a trial basis? Is there anywhere that would loan/hire a ladder to try?
 
I have a MastMate, bought direct from the manufacturer. Great bit of kit and I have used it many times to get up the mast single handed. Wouldn't be without it. Having said that, passion many years ago was in rock climbing so no fear of heights and a trust in good kit as long as you know how to use it.

http://www.mastmate.com
 
LadyInBed said:
but they can afford to employ a 'Chief People Officer' !
You would think that the least they could do is put a pic of their product on their site.
Click to expand...

I believe they're the new suppliers of the Defee mast ladder, the actual product remaining unchanged.

Pete
 
slipknot said:
Having read many of the posts about the pros & cons of the webbing type mast ladders, I do think that using one is likely to make getting up my 12m sparcraft mast easier for me. The Deffee ladder gets good reviews, however I'm reluctant to splash out several hundred quid to find that it doesn't improve access as much as I expect. Before I start phoning around, does anyone know if any of the manufacturers loan them out on a trial basis? Is there anywhere that would loan/hire a ladder to try?
Click to expand...
Having seen a mast mounted winch shear off its mount under load when another boat was winching a crewman up the mast, I don't fancy bosuns chairs which have suffered other types of calamitous failures also.

I had a pair of folding mast steps near the masthead which gave me just the right height to stand and look down on the top of the mast for easy working with a waist strop to free both hands. BUT how to get up there?

The strop type of footholds on a rope/tape didn't appeal as under load they grip the foot and are uncomfortable, also they can be difficult to get one's foot into the loops without having to hold the loop with one hand first. So I bought a Deffee ladder with hard ABS steps which was mostly a great product but it did have one shortcoming which was always an annoyance and a disappointment.

The three flat tapes which hold each step (one at each end of the steps, and a middle tape) are all gathered to meet above the top step at a central terminal ring for hoisting, which is a couple of feet above that top step. I found that this distance left me short of the necessary height to raise my eye level above the masthead and it was neither easy nor safe to make the transition from the ladder to the fixed pair of folding steps. In other words, whilst I felt perfectly safe on the ladder with someone below top-roping me, I couldn't get quite high enough to work easily and with a comfortable focal length for detailed work.

I hope this may be of help to you in coming to a decision.
 
Before you buy a ladder, and assuming you are not singlehanding, have a look at a Mastclimba, marketed by a regular forum poster. I have had a predecessor, the Mast-climb, no longer made, for many years. Excellent for a couple where one is unable to winch the other, as all the effort is made by the legs of the climber. A bosun's chair is used on one halyard and the device on another, increasing security aloft.

There is also MastaClimba that works on similar principles but I know nothing about it other than what it says on the website. http://www.mastaclimba.com/

Here's a pic of mine, it could easily be made with adequate welding skills and plenty have been constructed in wood.
April044.jpg
 
prv said:
I believe they're the new suppliers of the Defee mast ladder, the actual product remaining unchanged.

Pete
Click to expand...
The Deffee http://www.gdeffee.freeserve.co.uk looks to be a better design than the Mastmate to me.
I would have trouble deploying the Mastermate as I would have to take the main sail toggles out of the track to get the ladder toggles in, then to climb up on top of the boom to get to the ladder would be very difficult on my boat.
 
LadyInBed said:
The Deffee http://www.gdeffee.freeserve.co.uk looks to be a better design than the Mastmate to me.
I would have trouble deploying the Mastermate as I would have to take the main sail toggles out of the track to get the ladder toggles in, then to climb up on top of the boom to get to the ladder would be very difficult on my boat.
Click to expand...

I take your point about having to remove the sail toggles, actually very easy on my boat, but when I orded the MastMate, they supplied it so that the bottom of the ladder came down to deck level. OK, the first metre or so is not attached to the mast but that causes no problem. I have not seen or used a Defee but they look a lot bulkier for storage. The MastMate rolls up into a pretty compact carry bag. It also comes, or at least mine did, with a waist belt with bag for tools etc and attached to the belt is a strop that passes round the mast so you can stand on the steps and lean back when you are working.
 
I made my own for a similar-sized mast with square section aluminium steps, rivetted through webbing sides to flat aluminium bar and with a central webbing constrained between pairs of rivets to take the sail slides. Including plastic end caps for the steps, rivets and sail slides I reckon the cost of materials would now be very roughly £130-140 excluding any delivery charges. The work is not difficult (but repetitive) and would take perhaps a weekend (OK if you have the time). It comes down to deck level and the rolled volume is about a cubic foot or so in old money.
 
As a single-hander, I bought a custom-sized Deffee ladder for my boat, which has a 9m high mast. I did so without trying one first or ever having been up any mast, and - shockingly - it has worked perfectly for several years. I wear a bosun's chair tied to a safety line (spinnaker halyard) which can be tensioned and released by any weakling helper, and also use a looped safety-line clipped first around the mast above the spreaders, then around the shrouds when working right at the top.

It rolls up into a drawstring bag no bigger than old-fashioned fat sleeping-bag.
 
I have a MastMate and use it every year to take the anemometer off. Why have it whizzing around for 6 months when I'm not using it?

At the same time I check every part of the rigging and always take a roll of self-amalgamating tape up with me just to tidy up areas of possible chafe. I also take some wipes with me and clean a suprising amount of crud from the tops of the radar, spreaders and the shrouds themselves.

Last year the the flag halyard snapped ... it probably took 20 minutes to get up to the spreader and run a new one.

I always go up with a bosuns chair being pulled up just behind me by my wife ... absolutely no effort on her behalf ... and sit in the chair to come down. If she wasn't there I would still be happy to go up using the the climbers mantra of always having three points of contact ... two feet, one hand or two hands one foot.

It is ESSENTIAL to have the ladder as tight as possible otherwise I find that I can kick the rung away from me.
 
I've had a look at this Kinleven mast ladder - I have a Deffee one and it's far better. The webbing used by Deffee's ladder is a tougher. Kinleven claim to have made improvements by using 'parting' of their webbing to feed the rivets though - you couldn't do that to the webbing on a Deffee ladder - it's far too tough. My personal opinion is that the Kinleven design is a cheap copy of the Deffee one.
 
LadyInBed said:
The Deffee http://www.gdeffee.freeserve.co.uk looks to be a better design than the Mastmate to me.
I would have trouble deploying the Mastermate as I would have to take the main sail toggles out of the track to get the ladder toggles in, then to climb up on top of the boom to get to the ladder would be very difficult on my boat.
Click to expand...

I had mine made with a few extra rungs so it would reach to deck level. It's a little awkward getting up to boom level, but it works. The slides go above the mainsail slides, no problem.

Main problem with "try before you buy" for the Deffee Ladder (of which I am an enthusiastic user) is that the slugs for the mast slide vary considerably from boat to boat, and are made for a specific mast. So, they'd have to have a wide variety of different ladders available for loan.
 
You are free to try my Mastmate this weekend, the burgee need replacing so only half a mast to clime.

Pete
 
I have a mastaclimber aboard, new and as yet untested. It is due a test drive and theory it can be used singlehanded with a separate climbing rope clutch for the bosunchair backup. However I would prefer to have an oppo on deck as backup for the first usage. Now the question is should that be swmbo or a random stranger from this forum? Hmmm tough call, what do you think OP?
 
Pete5. Thank you for your kind offer, but I've bitten the bullet and ordered a kinleven ladder. Delivery imminent so I'll post a report when I eventually use it. Ha Ha. Jonjo7. It's been a while since I've been described as a random stranger..... I couldn't see where you are located, but if you are not too far away and you do need another pair of hands give me a shout.
 
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