Marmaris Yacht Marina: The Beginning of the End?

demonboy

demonboy

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I'm not sure how to start this thread. I'm surprised it's not been discussed here already. Maybe people who know about it respect the people involved, or perhaps they want to avoid a messy discussion. The events that happened in Marmaris Yacht Marina last week, after all, sent shock-waves amongst live-aboards the world over but I'm keen to learn more. Hell, I'll be honest: I do like a bit of gossip! Here's what I know:

Marmaris Yacht Marina has one of the best-loved, biggest and most well-known live-aboard communities in the world. It is famous for its value, its social scene, its services, oh and being located in one the best places to sail on this planet. One of the reasons or, rather, two of the reasons why it has such a great reputation is down to a couple of liveaboards who, let's make no bones about it, were central to the success of this world-wide reputation. They were so involved in the day-today social activities that life in Yacht Marina without them was a nonsense. Last week they were kicked out.

Now I'm uncertain why they were kicked out and that's between the live-aboards in question and the marina management. Whilst I understand that the management can do as they please I'm almost certain that the actions of the management was knee-jerk and unwarranted. I agree there are others to take the gauntlet and continue to organise stuff for the liveaboards. The world doesn't end because they are no longer there, but what this couple did for the marina in terms of both its reputation and its social scene was invaluable. No amount of money could pay for the level of PR they generated for the marina and if you've met the management of the marina you'd understand that they're gonna struggle to maintain this relationship between marina and liveaboard on their own. I know that some liveaboards are so shocked by what has happened they have chosen to boycott the marina restaurant in protest and I'm aware that birthday parties, for example, are now held in bars in town rather than the marina bar. Perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong but there is now no NYE party, there is no karaoke or live music on a Friday any more and the organisation of the annual trip to Istanbul Boat Show is now up in the air, to give just a few examples of the impact this has had.

In short what occurred last week is no less than bizarre. Why would the marina, without notice or explanation, kick out a couple who, quite frankly, did wonders for that marina's reputation?

There can only be two possible explanations:

1. The management are so dumb they've just shot themselves in the foot.
2. It's the first move to kick out the live-aboards.

Keeping 200+ liveaboards happy over the winter months must be a management nightmare. From a business point of view it is far easier to increase the mooring prices and fill your boat-yard up with empty vessels than have the hassle of live-aboards complain when the showers give off electric shocks or when the drinking water gets polluted with diesel.

I'm sure in a year's time this will all be forgotten and life goes on and hey ho, them's the breaks, but wtf? I'd be interested to know what other live-aboards think about the situation, in particular from people who know more than my knowledge, which is, quite frankly, based on rumour and hear-say (I did say I liked a bit of gossip).
 
Hi,

Interesting. We left in November and I know there was a hardcore who organised things and most people were grateful for that.

I would be surprised if the marina doesn't want liveaboards as they presumably contribute both income and atmosphere.

Must be more to this than meets the eye!

I've pm'd you by the way.

Cheers,

Bob
 
I know absolutely nothing more than you have written, but there must be a third possible explanation ...... That they did something wrong which upset the management . It could be anything which nobody else knows about, but still a possibility nonetheless.
 
Good evening:

This is not gossip but I know of a number of other yachts have been asked to leave MYM in the past. They were not exactly asked to leave but when they went to re-new their contract they were refused new contracts and given very curious reasons.

The impression I got from their explanation of the events was that these folks had been a bit of nuisance to the management demanding/expecting a higher standard then they recieved - in other words they had become a bit of pain to the management so the marina exercised their right to get rid of them.

If these folks were so busy organizing events the management might well have decided they were becoming too big for their breeches. I am sure that we have all seen cases in the past where weak management are very touchy and resent anyone showing up their weaknesses.

I agree that events like this can have a very negative effect on future bookings having witnessed something similiar at another marina in Marmaris when the new manager lacked the personal touch and upset a lot of long term yachties. It took a couple of years to undo the damage.

The live-aboard community are really quite a close knit group and are quick to take on board any reported mistreatment by marina management.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
Interesting! News spreads fast!
It seems that the Marina Management promote a strictly no competition policy. No-one but NO-ONE is allowed to compete with marina based businesses in any shape or form whether it is for buying groceries, laundry, chandlery, parties or work on boats. The penalty for transgression is to be kicked or forced out. Add to this the pathetic internet service (which they censor and control access), the over zealous security staff (for security read "private police"), extortionate electricity and water charges and the doubling of restaurant prices and it is apparent that this place has "not a lot" going for it for the liveaboard. The electric shocks and diesel polluted water supply are a bonus feature. The marina has not had diesel or petrol for sale for over a year but it still leaks out!
The Yat Marine management have a track history of getting it all their own way and do not appear to consider or care about the consequences. Best advice to any liveaboard is despite the advantages of Yat Marine it is best avoided until the management learn how to give and take. Instead of stepping on competition they would be better off if they raised their game by encouraging their service provders to provide a better service to the marina users.

No doubt somebody knows more than I!
 
So, you own a large garage carrying out car repairs and servicing. I come along with my trolley jack and bag of spanners, and set up my own little repair facility in the corner of your workshop, offering a much cheaper service whilst you hold the umbrella of overhead costs up. You would be quite happy with that, would you?

Of course the marina management don't want competition within their domain! But there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop berth holders going into town to shop for groceries, chandlery or whatever - and indeed that is what everyone does. Parties can be arranged by individuals in any venue they care to choose. Outside contractors can, and do come into the marina to carry out work on yachts, subject to an 'admission' charge - just the same as many marinas within the UK and other countries.

The internet service used to be a problem maybe....but I continually have a 100% signal strength with no access problems other than the denied sites blocked by Turkcell, not the marina proxy server as you suggest. Sure, the IT office has some filters in place which block access to such sites as porn or spyware based sites (stat counters and the like) but again, that is to be expected.

Electricity charges again are on par with a lot of other places, and water at around 30p per tonne can hardly be called extortionate!

Similarly, restaurant prices have NOT doubled, although they did go up considerably in February last.

Security staff are generally very friendly and helpful and no-way during the last 15 months have I experienced any indication of a 'private police' force....your experience is obviously very different?

I am not pro management in any way at all, if fact I think some of their ideas and policies stink, nor am I saying you are totally wrong........but let's get some facts in perspective, eh?

Wishing you all a great 2009 sailing season!
Cheers.

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
We visited Marmaris before there were any marinas, and lay alongside a high quay, so have no comments on this particular affair, but long experience of wintering in many different countries has led us to recall the "4 dozen" rule of the emerging flotilla days.
In any wintering group there is often a Queen Bee of either sex, they are invaluable, tireless, inventive, and much to be commended.
They can also be irritating to some. The noses they get up will come under the "4 dozen" rule: that in every flotilla of twelve yachts= 48 souls there is likely to be one unco-operative holidaymaker who is a thoroughly awkward bloodyminded b------r whose guns it is necessary to spike with firm but polite diplomacy before he or she spoils it for everyone else.
All hives need a queen bee.
Signed Pud's girl
(with the approval of pud.)
 
"Keeping 200+ liveaboards happy over the winter months must be a management nightmare."

Since when is it the responsability of marina managers to keep livaboards happy during the winter.
Maybe these livaboards should all sell there boats and buy a wee house in the same village.

I didnt become a livaboard so i could join a community of other livaboards, and hang around the same marina year after year.
Do these livaboards not have a sense of adventure anymore.
Its sounds to me like the place is being organized like a package holiday where everybody walks around like sheep with name tags on.
Doesnt sound like somwhere i would like to winter.


/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Marmaris Yat Marine, more than a marina, a place to live.

A direct quote from their advertising leaflets distributed at boatshows the world over. There seems to be a reality gap between where they want to be and where they are, normally not a problem in business as long as you are aiming in the right direction and taking onboard constructive criticism. In the case of the management of this marina it seems, to me at least, that yotties and yachts are two very different concepts. The former is a costly group of picky people who are not easily satisfied and the latter are money making assets. The issue is that without looking after one they do not have the right to expect a profit from the other.

One quick example for those who have not experienced the Yat Marine liveaboard life.

Friday nights are quiet nights in the marina bar. Yotties requested permission to have a karaoke evening, granted, they provided their own equipment and made their own entertainment at no cost to the marina. The result was a full bar for 6 hours once a week at NO COST TO THE MARINA.

Sorry for the capitals but I am incensed at the suggestion that those concerned had done anything other than provide a service for both yotties and the marina alike at no personal gain.
 
Well I stand corrected, Lord MacDonald, it seems that the marina itself said it was its own responsibility.

I find your other complaints about liveaboards wanting to live in a marina year after year and not having any sense of danger rather judgmental, if not misinformed. If liveaboards wish to live in a marina for the winter then so what? Who cares why you, they or I became a liveaboard? It's not important within this context and I don't think you should be so hasty to judge others by turning it into a competition based upon personal protocol.

Many of these liveaboards sailed from far-flung places like the UK, Germany, Sweden, New Zealand, Canada etc to get to Turkey. That's pretty adventurous in my book so if they wish to spend a winter in comfort, let them.

This kind of mightier-than-thou attitude sucks.
 
Spot on. I spent two consecutive winters in Larnaca Marina Cyprus. The liveaboard community occupied well over half the berths. The management were good humoured until a female American liveaboard complained to the Prime Ministers wife at a Ladies Club conference by placing an anonomous letter on the lecturn.

That complaint trickled down to the Marina management who went berserk. VHF and Ham SSB radio traffic was banned. The notice board (used for event and party notification) was covered with a locked glass panel. All self-help was banned ie no helping each other with engines, painting etc. Outside Greek contractors only were allowed to work on other folks boats. The club room was locked and chained. Many liveaboards were not allowed to renew for the following year. A clean sweep with the management working to rule.

Thats all it took. Consensus was that most Med born males definitely do not tolerate female critisism (sp). It goes against there macho or religous upbringing.
 
No experience at all of this marina, but I have noticed that marinas tend to welcome liveaboards when they are empty but become less keen once they can fill their berths with long term little used boats. Such boats tend to buy maintainance services rather than liveaboards who DIY. They are less demanding because they are seldom there, when they visit the boat they leave the marina to go sailing. This marina is now turning away business so I presume it is full. They can reasonbly expect more business as yachts flee the eurozone. Could this lead them to believe they no longer need liveaboards?
 
If you re-read the post you might see that I am making an assumption about the attitude of the marina staff. Although I do believe that yotties involve more work than empty boats. Point is that a marina that advertises as a place to live can expect liveaboards and should not be surprised when they arrive. Liveaboards are, in general, on a budget and handy by necessity. They are also comunity spirited and helpful to others in their small world. I would not be surprised if the actions referred to at the opening of this post were caused by a reaction by local businesses perceiving missed opportunities when one yottie helps another out of kindness and, in so doing earns a redeemable brownie point come next antifouling season but avoids money changing hands in the meantime. Greed kills and this golden goose is flying south for the winter.
 
Fair comment. I see now that you were describing a possible management perception of liveaboards, and not your own view. I apologise for any offence given due to my misunderstanding of your post.

The couple concerned in this regrettable and unhappy event were a boon to both the liveaboard community and the marina management alike. Events organised by them, with management permission, gave the yotties a very active social calender over the winter months whilst at the same time generating substantial income for the facilities within the marina. Additionally, any yotty complaints were fielded by them and constructively put to the management team, thereby avoiding any possibility of picky people (sorry!) trailing in and out of the front office. All in all, they were an asset to the marina.

I have my own thoughts on why they were 'asked' to leave but this is not perhaps the place to air my personal views, which may be way off the mark.

They will be sadly missed of course but as already stated, when the change over of boats occurs in the spring, it will all be forgotten and new liveaboards will be none the wiser.

Have a good season. Cheers.
 
'when the change over of boats occurs in the spring, it will all be forgotten and new liveaboards will be none the wiser'

What new liveaboards?

This marina was populated by existing yotties and word of mouth, a very powerful force in the liveaboard community. Few boats have turned up on spec since the marina is out of the way around the corner after three other marinas. Rod the God has only just included this facility in his latest work of fiction and many (I am being kind) yotties are relying on fourth-hand photocopies of the first edition of the turkish pilot swapped at boat jumbles for a rusty shackle and so will have no prior knowledge of this place save the recommendation of others met out there. What do you think they will say now?

Go to Marmaris Yat Marine but keep your head down, ask for nothing and expect to be disappointed, do not work on your boat during the hours of daylight, no anding on the pontoon, do not help others for fear of a midnight visit followed by an instant eviction, do not even think of eating in the restaurant if you are in any way budget conscious, stock up on all necessities prior to arrival including milk and fresh vegitables unless you don't mind all your greens being green and slimy (including carrots and tomatoes), don't expect to be able to bus into town to shop-not permitted under the rules of the regime.

In case of misunderstanding, Ian, I was being ironic.

This marina has flourished on word of mouth and might die from the same voting system.
 
As liveaboards who have experienced Marmaris yacht Marine we have something to add.We were glad of the time we spent there as we met so many wonderful people and benefited tremendously from the help and assitance given freely by two individuals. Also the social life they organised will make our stay there memorable. However we had major problems with the marina management. Our experience was that we found their rules were applied at times to some but not others. This becomes confusing when your friends are not allowed to help you on your yacht but others have teams of their friends helping them while you are expected to pay exorbitant prices for work, which can be substandard if not supervised, by tradesmen recognised by the marina. The prices demanded are way beyond affordable by most liveaboards standards, and that is if you can find someone who will quote the work and fit in to an acceptable timescale.
So like others it became impossible for us to stay,and I wonder what new yachties to the marina must think when they see yachts launched half painted and others having to be towed to new climes. Not very good for their publicity do you think?
 
Good evening:

When in Greece years ago, I realized that when I began to resent any changes imposed by the Harbour Master that it was an obvious signal that I had stayed too long so I would move on.

I wonder if this might not apply to a number of yacht owners in MYM as it is a privately owned marina and the management are entitled to manage it as they see fit.

If one begins to resent the changes or management style, it seems that it is time to move on. I am sure you will find a welcome at your new marina and will be happy with the rules in effect when you arrive. Of course, it won't be heaven but it will be better than remaining in a marina where you are plainly unhappy.

Just a thought!!!

Squeaky
 
IMHO most we met trying to decide on a Turkish Marina settled on Marmaris simply because they were the cheapest at the time.

A shame if the community spirit has been damaged for whatever reason, but as others have said - life will go on and provided they remain good value - I've no doubts they will remain over subscribed for winter berthing.
JOHN
 
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