Marine Radio: use on land?

[Beadle]

Yes

Its something the Coastguard can do - but usually for things more dramatic than sea sickness.

The Link call was different.

Firstly it was via BT Coastal stations who used to connect you to a normal landline much the same as a normal operator, except more expensive.

BTB - That is the reason that we have duplex channels.

 

[timbartlett]

I've tried to find a definitive guide to channel use, but they all seem to differ.

The definitive table is in Appendix 18 to the Radio Regulations.
There's a copy of it at the end of MGN324 www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn_324.pdf
The Ofcom version is simplified, and adapted to reflect UK usage (eg it highlights the use of Ch67 by the Coastguard)
The Wikipedia version is wrong
Many radio instruction manuals are also catastrophically, horribly wrong, and are best ignored (on this particular subject)

 

[caiman]

PRV-Why was DSC invented?
I've had 2 pints so cannot think/type properly, please give me your interpritation of why DSC was invented,and what the 'reality' is-I'll have a look in the morning.
Cheers
Why is it that all my posts seem to be at the bottom of the page?this is really not helping my paranoia!!

 

[Jim@sea]

The other day I towed my boat to XXXXport, climbed in my boat, called the Marina on Channel 12 requesting them to unlock the gates to the Slipway. You are saying that this was illegal.
PS. Tried them with my mobile but the answering machine was on.

 

[prv]

PRV-Why was DSC invented?

So that commercial ships didn't need to pay a radio officer to listen to the radios 24/7 for a voice call (note that DSC exists on long-range HF and MF radios too). Instead, the radios would beep to alert the officer of the watch when there was something relevant going on, either a call addressed to his ship or a general distress or safety alert relevant to everyone.

Nothing whatsoever to do with small yachts, but the radio regulations apply to everyone so we had to change too.

So now the beer's worn off, I'm still curious to know why you think it was invented (because of "inappropriate VHF use"? WAT?). Or why, now that it has, you think you have to comply with "f'kin rules" that you didn't before.

Pete

 

[caiman]

If you towed your boat by motor vehicle,not another boat,ie if you transmitted from the land,not from the water,then Offcom,not me, will tell you it is illegal.I think one of the earlier posts suggested that you could be liable for a 5K fine.Whether this applies to inland waters I don't know,but it certainly applies at the coast.No,I don't know anyone who has been busted for this hienious crime.
I don't like this law,and I'm not one of the'twatsatthetop' who dream up this ****,I'm just a 'pleb' at the bottom of the rungs that has to comply with what the 'man in the uniform' casts down upon me.But when the tatt get encouragement from the plebs to increase legislation,so that it impinges on what I want to do,and have been doing,quite happily,and without their 'help',I get a bit miffed.
Why not contact the marina staff and 'educate' them,so that they carry an active mobile phone with them,and therefore not force people to break the law.If they want a recomendation for a sturdy waterproof phone,try a Samsung B2100.as described on another post.
Cheers

 

[chanelyacht]

Whilst doing this I heard a mayday call go out for a small boat which reported his position to be ½ mile south of St Mary’s island it was a clear summers evening and flat calm and Humber coast guard called out Blyth lifeboat.
When I looked there were no boats in the area south of the island but there was one ½ a mile north of the island.
So what should you do radio Humber coast guard and admit to using radio illegally or say nothing and waste the lifeboats time.

Geoff

999, Coastguard. It's what it's there for.

If we then needed you to talk to the lifeboat, for example to con them on to a casualty, as callers occaisionally do for us, we'd connect your telephone call into our VHF aerials and away you go (as we do for medical advice).

 

[chanelyacht]

If you towed your boat by motor vehicle,not another boat,ie if you transmitted from the land,not from the water,then Offcom,not me, will tell you it is illegal.I think one of the earlier posts suggested that you could be liable for a 5K fine.Whether this applies to inland waters I don't know,but it certainly applies at the coast.No,I don't know anyone who has been busted for this hienious crime.
I don't like this law,and I'm not one of the'twatsatthetop' who dream up this ****,I'm just a 'pleb' at the bottom of the rungs that has to comply with what the 'man in the uniform' casts down upon me.But when the tatt get encouragement from the plebs to increase legislation,so that it impinges on what I want to do,and have been doing,quite happily,and without their 'help',I get a bit miffed.
Why not contact the marina staff and 'educate' them,so that they carry an active mobile phone with them,and therefore not force people to break the law.If they want a recomendation for a sturdy waterproof phone,try a Samsung B2100.as described on another post.
Cheers

The definitions for where "maritime mobiles" can operate is laid down by international agreement by the ITU, it's not a UK or EU decision.

Marinas are a grey area, as technically M1 and M2 are private channels, it's just that the UK happen to grant a general authorisation to use as part of radio licensing procedures.

The same applies to our CG vehicles / teams - they can use radio on land because they only use our private channels, 0 and 99. You won't find them using 16 - unless in a dire emergency, in which case use is allowed anyway under the "preservation of life" clause.

 

[Geoff Enigma]

Apologies I was not aware that you had that facility. My mistake could be down to reading older reference literature. I suppose that’s it cleared up now thanks.

 

[caiman]

PRV-I was typing the previous post as your post arrived.FYI I have held an MF license since 1989,and updated it to a LRC when DSC arrived.
From my imperfect memory,one of the reasons DSC was introduced was,as you say,to reduce man power in the Coastguard.Another was so that Ch16,the distress and calling VHF channel,would be unclogged of boat users 'phoning' each other up every 5 minutes to disscuss what they are going to have for tea,(inappropriate use)thereby freeing up Ch16 for distress working.
In my locality,there is not a great deal of VHF traffic as compared to places like the Solent.Unfortunatly,due to 'inproper use' in areas of high VHF traffic, DSC has been forced upon all of us.The reality,IMHO,is that DSC is not being used as imagined,and so the status quo has not really changed.The only people that have had any real benifit from DSC are the people that charge for the training courses.
Try buying a new VHF that does not have DSC.Yeah,I know that if you get a DSC VHF set,you don't have to use the DSC function,but it's only a matter of time until it is enforced.Again,all IMHO.
Cheers

 

[prv]

From my imperfect memory,one of the reasons DSC was introduced was,as you say,to reduce man power in the Coastguard.

I didn't say anything about the Coastguard.

I was talking about commercial shipping, container ships and oil tankers. As I understand it, they used to have a radio officer on near-continuous listening watch, the distress-listening periods at the top of the hour, all that stuff you'll know about from MF. It cost shipping companies money to pay for the manpower to do that. Hence the move to replace the listening ear with a machine that costs nothing to run.

The reasons you cite - Coastguard manpower, ch16 full of unnecessary yottie calls - sound like the sort of thing published around the time DSC for yachts was coming in, to try to justify its existence to a group who don't have to fund a radio officer. Maybe those reasons had some small influence on the original decision, but personally I doubt it.

As for the "f'kin rules" point, I think I'm starting to understand that you mean "use DSC for calling", not things like proper voice procedure, using correct channels etc, which is what it seemed to mean at first.

Pete

 

[chanelyacht]

From my imperfect memory,one of the reasons DSC was introduced was,as you say,to reduce man power in the Coastguard.Another was so that Ch16,the distress and calling VHF channel,would be unclogged of boat users 'phoning' each other up every 5 minutes to disscuss what they are going to have for tea,(inappropriate use)thereby freeing up Ch16 for distress working.
Cheers

No, CG manning levels weren't part of the equation. Remember, this is a Global system, and local resourcing issues aren't part of it.

It doesn't actually reduce anything - the DSC call still has to be answered and put to an operator on a working channel, and Ch16 still has to be monitored - we just don't always do it on a dedicated headset nowadays.

A big advantage is, or would be if it was used, getting the endless "xxx are you there John" calls that clog 16, and are quite capable of blotting out a faint distress call.

Another advantage of DSC distress is the databursts travel further, and can be got out a lot quicker that reading a full mayday.

 

[caiman]

Gentlemen-thank you for correcting my mistakes concerning DSC.However,there is some agreement that the system is not operating to its best potential.
Back to the original thread-use of a'Marine radio' on land and also in a later post,using VHF to tell your 'oppo' to turn the water tap off.Legal?Appropriate use?Or not?
Cheers

 

[little_roundtop]

[RANT]
This might be a tad off-topic and if so apologies but one thing that infuriates me when sailing off the southern Turkish coast is the "VHF net" that is in almost constant use in the two Marmaris marinas (Yat Marine and Netsel). Whenever I'm sailing in that region all of the working channels are almost always cluttered with inane chatter about the next dolmush to town or who 's going to the quiz tonight. I'd be a lot happier with someone using VHF for a quick "turn the tap off now" (as the OP was asking) than the almost total impossibility of vessels at sea using VHF radio at all in the vicinity of Marmaris because of this chatter.
[/RANT]

 

[timbartlett]

...The only people that have had any real benifit from DSC are the people that charge for the training courses...

Sorry, but no.
There has been a legal requirement for an "Authority to operate" for donkey's years. Before the advent of DSC, most yotties went for the Restricted (VHF Only) Certificate.

You could either swot up for it yourself, and sit a moderately rigorous exam, or do a one-day course with an easy exam at the end of it.

Now, most yotties go for an SRC. You can either swot up for it yourself, and sit a moderately rigorous exam, or do a one-day course with an easy exam at the end of it.

Two big differences between the old and new:
Back in the 70s/early 80s, people came on the course because using a radio had a certain mystique, and they were generaly proud to earn a certificate that gave them the privilege of using it. Now, many people seem to regard VHF as more like a primitive kind of mobile phone: more and more seem to grudge the fact that they have to have a licence, and some (fortunately a minority) even seem to regard their instructor as being party to some enormous conspiracy. (I've never yet seen anyone getting rich quick by running VHF courses, but I suppose there might be someone somewhere! I used to run them for Hampshire Education Authority, who paid me exacly the same as they paid any other Adult Education Instructor.)

Back in the 70s/early 80s, we could teach VHF courses with nothing more than a chalkboard. I remember being greeted with astonishment when I turned up at one centre with a couple of dead radios for role-playing: their were plenty of instructors who used matchboxes as make-believe microphones. Baby-alarms (for practicing voice procedure) were quite high tech! But all that mattered was whether the instructor was good enough to get his students through the (independent) exam) Nowadays, the syllabus is tightly controlled, the minimum time is specified, and every instructor or teaching centre has to have invested in several specially adapted radios before it is allowed to run courses.

 

[prv]

You can either swot up for it yourself, and sit a moderately rigorous exam, or do a one-day course with an easy exam at the end of it.

Oh - are the exams different then? Never knew that.

Pete

 

[timbartlett]

Oh - are the exams different then? Never knew that.

Pete

The written part of the exam is exactly the same. The point is that the one day course is "continuous assessment" so there is no separate practical "exam". If you go the "exam only" route, you will have a separate practical/oral exam.

Personally, I have never been asked to conduct an "exam only", so I'd have to swot up on the procedure before I could do it, but IIRC the practical/oral adds an hour or so to the half hour of the standard written paper.

 

[VicMallows]

Back in the 70s/early 80s, we could teach VHF courses with nothing more than a chalkboard.

Tim, would you say the overall standard of operating was better back then; better now; or very similar? My own view is that regulations and requirements can change easily ...... but changing peoples attitudes and behaviour is a quite different issue.

 

[prv]

The written part of the exam is exactly the same. The point is that the one day course is "continuous assessment" so there is no separate practical "exam". If you go the "exam only" route, you will have a separate practical/oral exam.

Makes sense. Although I have to say, my course involved bugger-all actual use of the radio. I think I made one dummy call, the instructor said "that's good, but you should speak a bit slower in future" and that was that. I remember thinking at the time what a waste it was to have all these specially-modified radios sitting in front of us when we hardly used them.

Pete

 

[nigelmercier]

Makes sense. Although I have to say, my course involved bugger-all actual use of the radio...

Really? When I did mine we all used the radios for a couple of hours, but didn't actually use DSC! Had to do a Mayday of course, made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I did the course at a local RNLI station, afterwards we got a tour of their latest craft, which was nice.