Marine Batteries - Danger or Electrocution?

One job I had, I did some work with OldSkool radars.
I didn't see anyone's pacemaker explode.
But one of the guys took photos as we took one to bits, using his phone.
It took a big screwdriver to lever his shiny new iphone off the magnetron, luckily it was so new they replaced it without asking awkward questions!
One of the technicians pushed a trolley with a loose steel spanner on it into a lab with a 16.5T superconducting magnet running at full field. The spanner was travelling so fast when it hit that it made it through the outer casing, the outer vacuum space, the outer liquid nitrogen shield, the middle vacuum space, the inner liquid nitrogen shield, the inner vacuum space and the liquid helium containment before hitting the magnet itself.
 
One of the technicians pushed a trolley with a loose steel spanner on it into a lab with a 16.5T superconducting magnet running at full field. The spanner was travelling so fast when it hit that it made it through the outer casing, the outer vacuum space, the outer liquid nitrogen shield, the middle vacuum space, the inner liquid nitrogen shield, the inner vacuum space and the liquid helium containment before hitting the magnet itself.
I think I'm glad I had a nice, safe job that only involved field work in the Arctic and Antarctic and flying in small aircraft hundreds of miles from the nearest help, in marginal visibility and with inadequate navigational systems! Mind, all that pales into insignificance besides teaching a course where some of the participants were substantially senior to me...
 
From Jumble Duck (thanks)
Same here. The lab two doors down from mine had an old AC/DC mains radio with live chassis and no casing. The departmental safety officer dropped in for an inspection, saw it and without saying a word took a pair of wire cutters from his pocket, clipped the plug off and went away with his. Had he returned the following day he would have found the radio back in use, with the stripped ends of the mains cable inserted directly into the live and neutral of the 13A socket ...

Ah brings back memories. Not many on here even radio techs would know what you are talking about. Back a long time ago some mains electricity supplies were 240v DC.
A few valve (broadcast) radios were made or modified to run on the DC as well as AC. They had a rectifier valve to sort out the DC coming in to correct polarity or rectify the AC mains. They had a horrible Bareter sort of vaccuum mounted resistor with positive temp coefficient in series with all the valve heaters. Now the horrible part was that one side of the mains wires coming in had to go to the chassis. Hopefully negative or neutral. This meant that orientation of active and neutral was vital. (sometimes called "polarity" on this forum incorrectly to my mind). Anyway if the active and neutral got reversed as easily can happen the whole radio was at mains potential compared to any earthed metal. Very dangerous. Even more so if it did not have an insulating case. Fortunately most radios of the era had a transformer so mains input wiring was isolated from the chassis. Just a bit of history from ol'will
 
Back in the days when I used to play about with them televisions had live chassis too
 
Most people are right; with 12VDC electrocution is highly unlikely. The reason is not trivial because what kills a human is the current through his/her body and not the voltage; while a 22Ah battery is able to abundantly provide the killing amperage, the resistance of a human body will not allow a 12V potential to produce such a current (at least in the 99.99% cases!).
The problem you pose is not trivial either; you should have your battery enclosed in a waterproof case and an EXTERNAL sensor that sends a signal to an INTERNAL device able to cut the power at the outgoing wires.

Daniel
Overly complex.
Just get a sealed battery...
 
Back in the days when I used to play about with them televisions had live chassis too
Indeed. It saved on the copper and complexity of a mains transformer. The valve filaments all wired in series running off the AC mains and the HT rectified off the mains...EHT was more interesting. But that’s another story.

As polarity of the live/neutral couldn’t be guaranteed the chassis was potentially at 240V AC. Hence the danger.
 
True, I should have said electrocutes, per the thread title ;) I've seen the result of a short circuited 12v DC exploding in someone's face though
That’s because the energy stored and then capable of being discharged very rapidly in a 12v lead acid battery is huge. Nothing directly connected with the potential to electrocute anyone.

Dropping a spanner across the terminals of a lead acid battery is spectacular and dangerous.
 
Absolutely wrong. AC is more dangerous than DC because it causes the muscles to contract meaning that if you're gripping a live wire you won't be able to release it. With AC the muscles will pulsate and so there's a good chance of releasing. None of this applies at voltages as low as 12v. The voltage at which things become dangerous depends on the conductivity of the circuit ( mainly the dampness of the skin) but will be greater than about 50 volts.
I think you got your AC and DC mixed up in your first sentence. Surely it’s AC that (hopefully) throws you off and DC that grabs...?
 
This is correct.

The voltage required for you to even feel it is going to be above 50VDC and this varies person to person. I have read of people touching the terminals of 96V E-Bike batteries and reporting they can just feel a tingle.
I've had a distinct tingle from a 24v system,trying to connect a pump in a boat that was flooding when working with wet hands. I know, but it was an emergency!
 
I think I'm glad I had a nice, safe job that only involved field work in the Arctic and Antarctic and flying in small aircraft hundreds of miles from the nearest help, in marginal visibility and with inadequate navigational systems! Mind, all that pales into insignificance besides teaching a course where some of the participants were substantially senior to me...
I think you win.

Another magnet lab story ... we used to have to refill magnets with helium every few hours, including the small hours. My boss went in one night about 3am to refill the big magnet, and in his woozed state forgot to apply the castor locks on the 200 litre LHe dewar. It was made of stainless steel, but still slightly magnetic. The first he knew of his mistake was feeling the dewar nuzzle firmly against his back and pin him against the magnet. Not hard enough to cause him any injury, but enough to stop him moving, or reaching the magnet control panel. So there he stayed, trapped between the two, for five long hours until the first PG student arrived in the morning.
 
I think you win.

Another magnet lab story ... we used to have to refill magnets with helium every few hours, including the small hours. My boss went in one night about 3am to refill the big magnet, and in his woozed state forgot to apply the castor locks on the 200 litre LHe dewar. It was made of stainless steel, but still slightly magnetic. The first he knew of his mistake was feeling the dewar nuzzle firmly against his back and pin him against the magnet. Not hard enough to cause him any injury, but enough to stop him moving, or reaching the magnet control panel. So there he stayed, trapped between the two, for five long hours until the first PG student arrived in the morning.
Not sure about winning or losing - we are both still here, so I guess that's a win-win situation! But I still recall the time when the pilot was letting the co-pilot get some experience at the controls, and I looked out of the window and realized that we were a long way off course - and we were on our way home, with a modest fuel margin! Fortunately, I had been to Svalbard several times more than the aircrew and recognized where we were and could indicate which way we should turn. But it's fortunate I happened to look out of the window at a point where the terrain was readily recognizable if you knew it. The other hairy moment was with the same aircrew when we were flying survey lines along valley glaciers, with a low cloud ceiling, mostly about the same as the mountain tops we were flying between. Because of the nature of the survey (and the low cloud) we had to fly below the mountain tops, and of course, were passing over cols to get from one valley to the next. Fine as long as the cloud base was higher than the height of the col. But on one occasion the cloud base was LOWER than the height of the col, we were committed to going over it (I don't think there was room for the Twin Otter to turn ) and on the say-so of my colleague who was map-reading (this was long before precision real-time satellite navigation) and assured the pilot there were no obstacles, he took us through the cloud. I'm still here, but it's the sort of thing you read about as "pilot error" in AIB reports!
 
Eek. The grimly factual term in the reports is "CFT": "Controlled Flight into Terrain".
I think I should point out that the aircrew and aircraft's main business was spraying detergent onto oil-slicks, with crop spraying as a sideline. I've been around enough pilots to know the reputation of crop-sprayers! I think the kindest thing I've heard said is that they're all high on the fumes from the spray... The adage about old pilots and bold pilots comes to mind.

Of course, we shouldn't have been flying in what were decidedly marginal conditions for the work we were doing. But it happened that the weather that season had been unremittingly bad for about two weeks beforehand, and we were all pretty much stir crazy. It didn't help that we'd had to cancel flying several times because the cloud base was definitely too low for us to operate, and this was the first time when it looked as if we could get the work done.
 
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I think I should point out that the aircrew and aircraft's main business was spraying detergent onto oil-slicks, with crop spraying as a sideline. I've been around enough pilots to know the reputation of crop-sprayers! I think the kindest thing I've heard said is that they're all high on the fumes from the spray... The adage about old pilots and bold pilots comes to mind.

Of course, we shouldn't have been flying in what were decidedly marginal conditions for the work we were doing. But it happened that the weather that season had been unremittingly bad for about two weeks beforehand, and we were all pretty much stir crazy. It didn't help that we'd had to cancel flying several times because the cloud base was definitely too low for us to operate, and this was the first time when it looked as if we could get the work done.

Ernest Ganns book " Fate is the Hunter " is a sobering read about aviation..................................
 
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