Marina yachts set the authorities on yachts at anchor

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Where can i stay in summer if not at anchor?Even with a gold visa the ports are full!

In Italy when i go in to "steal" water im shown a place, given between 30 minuets and an hour or to "to go to the office"i fill the tank,then go to the office via the vinolio and paint shop,at the office they tell me its 90€ pn but their fully booked i thank them and return either quickly or via a cafe.

By going to the office the port staff have a reason for my boat to be there,they know full well i couldent pay even if there were a place!

Even if i wanted to buy water i couldent as most ports dont have an individual meter

In France its the same either as in Italy i go along to a fuel dock where they give me the hose while filling my "tank" they never charge me,or to the accueil where i fill with water.In the past before solar power i would even ask the capitaninerie for an adapter when needed and they would give it reminding me i have only some many hours not more.

Today even if i were cruiseing with a large £100,000 boat and cash to throw away to prove how rich and important i was i would still HAVE TO anchor and have the crew launch the "tender"while i would be in a cafè the skipper would be TRYING to book a place in the port.Without success unless booked for way in the future or the following year

In France the baie de Cannes looks like a crowded marina.The Mayor of Thoule sur mer when i asked him for a place for the year for some friends said that he was increasing the places in "his" port but was not giveing any more places,the new places would be for winter and "days(not a week)for visiting boats in summer

He said his veiw accross the bay was ruined by so many boats at anchor,by adding places his commune would get some extra income and he hope there would be a few less boats spoiling his veiw

My question is:At which ports can i spend a few days in port without booking ahead give an unlimited buget??And wanting to change places every few days or week during summer???

Where if not at a port should i get my water???Give im sailing and not useing any fuel??

Another point,in my "home port" there are many with places for the year now retired who would love to cruise during summer but not anchor apart from a lunch stop they NEVER go out for more than half a day because they cant find a place else where for the night,they are mostly economically very solid and if someone could give them a list of ports to drift into they would be happy to pay the rate whatever it is (??)

As for me ive had to retern to earn some money to enjoy summer tied up to a leafy canal bank for free near a tap!
 
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The owners I spoke to in Torrevieja marinas seemed clear that their objection is to people staying free of charge because they are obliged to pay. One of these owners was Spanish and the other a Brit.

Good thread Lemain, & I tried to just read, & stay out of it, but it's no use, this subject tweaks a raw nerve with me as I've run into similiar problems while touring UK in my Campervan. "No camping overnight" signs going up everywhere, lay-byes bouldered off so Campers can't pull in etc.
The 'powers-that-be' are doing everything they can think of to force people to use facilities that aren't always wanted, just so local businesses can make a living off them.
Looks like the same thing's happening to cruisers now, but I think if someone told me I couldn't anchor in a quiet secluded anchorage I'd have a lot to say about it. Not sure I could actually keep my fist in my pocket while THAT discussion was going on.!
Cruisers anchoring for free, while Marina users have to pay for it...? Never heard such small-minded rubbish in all my life.

As for 'stealing' some water & power from Marinas, OK, but they make so much money from us that I find it difficult to sympathise with a Marina point of view.
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Having read this post and been it being very relevant to our future plans I was very disappointed to find that John Beatty’s (Breath of Angels) criticisms of the American liveaboards that he encountered in the Carribean now true of other nationalities in the Mediterranean.

The difference between liveaboards and cruisers:

Liveaboards
Liveaboards generally dress smartly and are using their boat as a floating home
The need to cover lots of ground is less urgent
Tend to stick to socialising with other established liveaboards
Have a very different agenda to cruisers


Cruisers
People that are our there for the sailing and the pleasure they get from that
Generally on a very tight budget (whether through necessity or choice)
Normally fulfilling a lifelong dream
Prefer to be in anchorages as they are enjoying the scenery rather than it being important to be very close to all the facilities


It’s a real shame that one type of stereotype cannot accept the other, my sincerest apologies to anybody that is offended by the category they fall into. This is a generalisation.

On our travels so far, we have only met with enthusiasm from those cruisers on boats who are older, wiser and definitely better off. Many have commented that they wished they had seized the opportunity to cruise much earlier in life. It’s worth being skint!

Come on guys, we all left the UK, with all its many problems. Let’s not make any more places into other “little Britains”.
 
I agreed with your first two paragraphs, but from then on........
I'd keep your fist in your pocket if talking to 'authority' of any nationality because if it comes out of your pocket you'll spend some time in the local slammer. Theft is theft, if marinas see fit not to give power and water for free then if you take it without payment you're stealing, regardless of whether the marina has made a stonking profit this year or not. it's a bit like saying if I take something from a person who has a lot of money it doesn't matter because they have so much money. I wonder how many problems that I've both heard about and encountered are generated by cruisers who 'help themselves'. This would include such things as not being able to use a marinas' dingy dock, even though you want to have a beer in their bar (can't use the bar because you aren't berthed here), sneaking into a hotel beach BBQ and trying to look like a hotel guest etc etc. I know some people think it's fair game, I think it's asking for trouble and anyway, if I organise a BBQ I don't want some uninvited freeloader showing up and helping themselves either.
 
My gosh!Im shocked realy shocked!!!!!!!!!

Ive "helped myself" recently in Bordighera, Rosignano solva, Rio marina and now the Porquerolles!!!

Am i a thief??I have no money, though what i have is my own.

In Bordighera:As a theif

I ate very well i helped myself to sausage chops sardines peppers salad fizzzy wine!!& far more including wonderful cheeses & desserts ummmm as a thief i dident have an invite i just followed my nose) next morning i was given jars of conserves & taken to San Remo where i was fed again!!And equiped with local wine they gave me 20 liters as their wines far better than anything form Elba??(not bad for a thief)

In Rosignano i tide up to a bouy being to deep to get behind the break water(sand bank)the powers that be knowing me let me stay!

fter a long row ashore i found a party i joined in what a great time!!I left with lots of food for my voyage and several,bottels of "grappa" which a woman brought and left in my dingy saying better gone than drunk hear!

I can list my crimes of stealing water power and places ive done the same for years!

As an someone that has been economically challenged for a long time what should i do to become acceptable to those with Economic strength in marinas?????

Im willing to be helped with what seems a social problem.Whats the cure???

Perhaps the midi.
 
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As for 'stealing' some water & power from Marinas, OK, but they make so much money from us that I find it difficult to sympathise with a Marina point of view.
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????? Erm, the Marinas do not foot the bill - the berth owners/tenants do in their charges and maintenance bills. The more utilities are used by freeloaders, the more the marina raise their charges to their tenants - geddit?

Employing your logic I could pull up to your house in my campervan, tap into your outside power source, fill up from your garden hose and claim that it was all ok because the water and power companies make enough money anyway!
 
This is paranoia, do you know a marina that doesnt employ a night man? I only spent two nights in the Mar Menor hanging on to dragging anchor in 50 knot winds.
Couldnt get into marina = full of people paying a fortune. Get a grip lads - no pun intended leave that part of Spain they have had it too good too long. Gouged my port side on those awful prongs sticking out of their waiting area. Move where the people have time for you. Water and abattery charge? 50p?
 
Right...I've calmed down a bit now.

I know, I know....I shouldn't have added the bit about Marinas. I wouldn't do any of the aforementioned activities myself. I just have no sympathy for them if they get ripped off sometimes.

I want to go cruising to get away from the constant aggravation of this modern life, but from what I read here sometimes, I'm going to run into it all the time, everywhere.
I think I'll skip the Med & go straight to Durban.
 
Hi Jerry, I'm not taking up all these points with you personally but addressing some of the points raised by others.....

Surely nobody would mind a yacht filling up a few containers from a standpipe provided that they don't interfere with the amenity of the marina in any way by blocking berths, pontoons, walkways, etc.? People staying on yachts have to buy food locally so they do contribute to the local economy in any case. A right-thinking local authority would provide a standpipe for the use of visitors, without interfering with the marina. I am sympathetic to marina users who object to pontoons and berths being blocked, or to really grotty boats and tenders loading up with dozens of cans - people pay a lot of money to keep expensive yachts in a marina and you have a right to expect a certain standard of appearance and behaviour. Same applies to hanging the washing out in some places.

As an analogy, it is like going to a decent restaurant - you don't want the person at the next table to be dressed in swimming trunks and you expect the maitre d' to ensure that minimum standards are adhered to.

But taking the restaurant analogy, we are complaining about a very, very few unwelcome people rummaging through the bins and pilfering odds and ends from outside. It's understandable that the management would want to stop that happening but how does that justify the restaurant or their customers asking the authorities to clear the local park of people eating picnics?? What harm are the picnicers causing? By denying the right of people to picnic freely you removing a basic freedom. I am surprised that any yachtsman would stand back and let that happen - let alone support it!

If marinas or their customers are troubled by thieves stealing their water and electricity then they should deal with the thieves, not visiting yachts who are anchoring locally. The people I spoke to in Torrevieja were quite clear about their objection - if they have to pay to stay there they don't like to see others staying for free. I think that's what most of it is about and it is plain nasty, and stems from jealousy and anger. It wasn't anything to do with a few people taking a little water - indeed, there is a standpipe on the beach at Torrevieja so there is no need for anyone to land on the marina. Mind you, they have put tall fences around the only safe place to land a tender to make it as difficult and dangerous as possible to land there. That's because these people are nasty - they don't benefit by their actions, they do it to be nasty to others.

As someone else said, and I concur; the Torreviejians and the residents of the marinas in TV are welcome to the dump. I have never come across such an unfriendly elitist crowd in all my travels. However, people do need anchorages along the coast I don't see why the marinas should win. There is a good safe anchorage that does not interfere with the port operations as there are very few ship movements and most of the anchorage does not conflict; it is easy to ask yachts to move when needed on the rare occasions when there is a conflict.

As for the poster who observed that "it is their country", rubbish. We are in the EU and Brits have every bit as much right to be in Spain as all the other EU citizens (including several million EU immigrants who have entered the UK in the last few years) have to live in the UK.

Finally, I would say to those reading this who can afford to stay in marinas and never have a financial need to stay in anchorages (or picnic) and who support the forcible moving-on of anchoring yachtsmen - Your circumstances can change. If you find yourself less well-off how will you manage when you can't get a few litres of water on your travels, or find anywhere to stop to eat? When you can't afford marinas and restaurants all the time you will find yourself in a very uncomfortable world, partly of your own building.
 
Hi Lemain,

I appreciate that your comments weren't directed specifically at me, but I'm afraid I don't agree with stealing at whatever 'level' it happens to be. If one did except the 'odd' few containers of water e.g. where and who decides what the limit of instances should be.

As you know, we spent several years messing about in the Med. and anchored everywhere we could, ONLY entering marinas to over-winter or for fuel. However, whilst we have, on a few occasions, taken a container or two of water from a public source, we almost always contacted the marina people first and ASKED if taking theirs.

We're not 'holier than thou', but I think that is the difference. We were NEVER charged (except in Gib - which is fair enough) even in August in Formentera, where the nightly charge then (circa 1999) for our sub 10 metres boat would have been £52.00 a night EXCLUDING water and electricity.

As always, we anchored nearby and dinghied in with about 5 five gallon containers. SWMBO went to the office and got the water meter (yes, they have (had) portable water meters) and we plugged it in and filled up. SWMBO then took the meter back to the office along with some cash. The lady stared at the meter, then burst out laughing and told her it was such a tiny amount there was no charge!

I mention this story to highlight what I believe is, to both marina bertholders and authorities, a more acceptable way to proceed. In short, I really don't believe there is any need to be 'stealthy' about it, as happens regularly in Tomas Maestre and in MANY other marinas in the Med.

I think you need to consider (and this is a general comment and not directed at you personally) that people following their own choice of lifestyle have no right to expect to be supported by others - WHATEVER the perceived relative wealth of these 'others'.

After all, the cost of water, even in Gib. (the costliest we came across) is really, really tiny compared with other day-to-day costs, so I don't understand the problem. As for sneaking into a marina, berthing, filling up with water, using the showers and electricity FOC, well I'm cannot believe anyone could condone that sort of behaviour.

Oh, BTW, totally agree with you re Torrevieja. How anyone can actually berth there long-term baffles us. It's not quite a 'dump', but there's little there to attract us, though we have anchored there many times for a day or six to stock up on food and water (paid for or at least payment offered) on passage to somewhere nicer. Never berthed in the marina though several cruising friends have.

Incidentally, the main reasons for boats being moved out of the bay in Torre is that (once again!) a few yachts inconsiderately anchor far too close the salt ship loading quays, severely restricting the manouvering space for the ships.

We saw this a few times and, incredibly, actually watched a British 'skipper' screaming and shouting that 'he wouldn't move' etc etc at the port launch that was asking him to move farther away.

So the authorites (in Torrevieja's case, the port) get fed up with dealing with obnoxious people like this chap and react to move everyone. Can you blame them?

Sometimes I despair at the self-centred short-sightedness of many cruising people who seem to think they are God's gift to the local people and somehow 'above the 'natives'! Yes, I know it's not everyone, but it only takes a few doesn't it?
 
All the time I have cruised the western meddy, I have paid for (or asked) water wherever I am, just plain and simple correctness. Not a lot of money, but a pain in the bum, carrying 10 x 20 litre containers around! So got a watermaker now! Havent had any problem using most marinas for the dinghy either, make friends with the marinaeros, (find the bar where they drink, a couple of beers will make a huge difference!) and use the local bars etc. You may find the local bar you spend a few pounds in will gve you water free, after all, they waste thousands of litres, washing down the outside seating areas. Dont "steal" water, as has been seen, it just puts peoples backs up. Anchor sensibly, be nice to folk, help each other out. Thats what the cruising liveaboard life should be like. Pity it isnt some times. By the way, avoid Torrevieja! I certainly will.
 
Hi Lemain
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you .
The points raised by jerryrat just about sum up the reasons why people get moved on from TV.you were just unfortunate to be there at the wrong time Personally I dont like the place, & totally agree its not the best of places whilst there are lots of decent folks moored in the marina there are also many dickheads.I only go there when I must.However I have never been moved on & generally tie on to the end of the pontoon opposite the old fuel quay for a couple of hours whilst I go about my business. Its not the visiting yachts that are the problem its the ones that have been turfed out of the marina for various reasons & then anchor in the outer harbour.I can remember 2 years ago there were so many floating sheds out there it became a joke. unfortunatly every one else had to suffer. Oscar can be a bit tetchy at times but if you take the trouble to speak to him he is fine
 
Jerry, I never suggested that people should help themselves to water or electricity. Water is worth about one Euro cent per litre in this part of the world, just to orient readers who might not be familiar with the costs. But whether it is a fraction of a cent or a Euro a litre, the principle remains the same. I, myself, have a watermaker and we never take on water after we leave our winter marina berth - we make 100% of our own water from May to October.

I think that Local Authorities should make available at the very least a standpipe and a safe place to land by dingy.

Marinas are not entirely without responsibility, however. If marinas take over large chunks of harbours, shorelines and estuaries, blocking off public access, then they should make some provision or restitution. That does not mean that visitors should have any rights to help themselves but it does mean that marinas should provide adequate signs to direct the visitor to services that are available.

On both occasions that we were expelled from TV, we were nowhere near the quay. We are a well-found, well maintained modern cruising yacht - a five year old Nauticat 42. I am certain that the reason we were moved on is the reason given to me - the marina users are nasty and want to get rid of people who (unlike themselves) don't pay.
 
I feel I have to defend Torrevieja.As we cruised south from France we were informed that my mother had to go into hospital for a serious op that might show she had cancer.We needed somewhere cheap and long term to moor.Torrevieja was the first place we came to that filled the bill.We tied up and flew back to the UK a few days later.One of the Brits there sorted out an airport run and kept an eye on the boat for us while we away for 3 months.When we returned the boat was safe and sound.It was the first time we had left her in a foreign port for so long and we were mightily relieved.Because we did not know what the outcome of my mother's op would be we had signed up for a 12 month berthing arrangement.We could not afford to throw the money away so we stayed there.Yes the town is not very attractive at all.Yes there are some unpleasant people there.But there are some lovely spots in the town and surrounds if you look.There is a charity run British Lending Library,loads of shops including 3 Lidls!-and a huge Carrefour.The Royal Yacht Club hauled us out and antifouled and polished our yacht for a fraction of the UK cost and were extremely helpful.The local Yanmar agent was superb.There are Spanish and English run chandlers to choose from.As the contestants on 'Take Your Pick' used to say I was just pleased to be there despite its all too obvious faults.I would go back there any time.
 
Hi Nat - That doesn't agree with what I have seen. We are a five year old Nauticat 42, not a floating shed and on both occasions we were expelled the others who were told to leave at the same time were normal cruising yachts, not houseboats.

If we were talking about sheds/houseboats then I would have a lot of sympathy....there was a post from new user about this some weeks ago but he was shot down and was probably too embarrassed to show himself again - nobody wanted to accept that there is a sub-culture of people living on boats that do not rightfully fall into the category of 'yacht'. I'm not talking about sheds and houseboats but ordinary cruising yachts - some new and some not so new but are we to judge fellow yachtsmen by the age and value of their yachts? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

As for 'Oscar' - we were expelled by a police launch, not the HM. Does this Oscar use the police launch? There was no discussion or debate allowed and on the last occasion I genuinely wanted to stay another day to make an engine repair but the police told me to leave. Fortunately the repair wasn't essential.

I am surprised to find so much support here for closing anchorages on the basis that undesirable people tend to anchor therefore everyone who anchors must be undesirable. What other categories could we single out in other areas of life? It is very misguided in my opinion but people will get what they deserve.

I would add to the smugger marina users - unless you are very wealthy, one day you will be on a fixed income and you won't be able to afford to stay in marinas all the time. That's when you will find out how difficult the marinas have made it for ordinary sailors to get ashore and obtain the essentials - water. It's not a a matter of paying for it, the cost is trivial, it just isn't available unless you sign-into the marina at a cost of up to £70 per night.

Entire harbours have been blocked-off making it impossible for non-marina users to stop. I am not just talking about the Med, the same thing has been happening for years in the UK.
 
Hi Lemain
I dont for one minute regard your yacht as a shed & none of these comments are aimed at you, but Ive seen things in the outer harbour that should be burnt. I have many contacts around TV & know of much that goes on. Its regretable you were moved on but you shouldnt take it personally. Oscar had to make a point so he moved everyone. as I said many people just took the piss.
Look at it from a different angle. If you evicted tenants for non payment of rent & they erected tents in your front garden & helped themselves to your water & peed up your wall ect wouldnt you get the zig /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Marina yachts set the authorities on yachts takeing water skinflit

I asked the capitanerie hear today he said they pay a bit less than 1&#8364;one euro per 1000liters.This is odd it wount accept when i put ONE EURO per thousand liters

He also said that boats takeing water are allowed toand the port has more than enough water allowed for port use in its estimates covering transit boats.

He said that applies to "normal" boats but not charter or large boats needing several thousand liters.As i thought.In summer most of the ports i use have a hose as well for transit.

Boat cleanings not allowed.

Anyone that feels strongly about transit boats takeing 40 liters every two weeks which is about what i use,shouldent have anchored boats moved.

Send a letter to the other shareholders in the port and have the matter put on the agenda for the AGM,remember to to add a voteing slip that those that agree can send their vote along.

Our AGM never has more than a dozen people,since they stopped the buffet & drinks i rearly go along.

Another point ive noticed that a lot of port water is very poor often with chlorine ive been buying those 5liter bottles to make tea or dilute the wine if a visitor so wishes,i use port water for my washing when i have to do it or no laundry

A last point the capitane said transit boats use very little water most fill up in port when they go in or when takeing Fuel as i said!!!
 
Re: Marina yachts set the authorities on yachts takeing water skinflit

My post above is very odd i cant edit and it wont say one euro per one thousand liters in the first paragraph

Now the paragraph has changed and two of my attempts to add are there???????
 
It's nice to know that there is at least one nice person in a marina, in TV! I agree with you about Oliver's Chandlery - it has to be one of the best-run in Spain.
 
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