Marina yachts set the authorities on yachts at anchor

[Anonymous]

There is a pattern of behaviour developing along part of the Spanish coast, just north of Cabo de Palos, for owners of yachts in marinas to encourage local authorities to move on yachts that are anchored in adjacent anchorages.

Those at anchor who have been forced to leave the anchorage tend to blame the marinas for starting the trouble. However, last year I spoke to two yachtsmen who keep their boats in marinas in Torrevieja who told me that they had complained as they did not consider it 'fair' for people to anchor free of charge, and gave the impression that they looked down on those who anchor. Today, in another thread, we heard of others who are in Thomas Maestre reporting yachts at anchor in the Mar Menor, a traditional long-standing anchorage, to the authorities to make them leave.

The owners I spoke to in Torrevieja marinas seemed clear that their objection is to people staying free of charge because they are obliged to pay. One of these owners was Spanish and the other a Brit.

I've no idea how widespread this behaviour is and I am only aware of it happening in Torrejieja and Mar Menor, but presumably it happens in other places where marinas and anchorages are close? Maybe Morayra?

I think that this is a sad and bad development which will no doubt please all of the commercial interests but it is far from being in the best interests of yachties...what do others feel?

 

[Parsonsheath]

Comes back to the old green eyed jealousy, shame, because sailing was once class run, and though a lot of that had passed to money run, it now seems those who have want to exclude those hoi polloi that may have not!

 

[ccscott49]

I think it'sdespicable behaviour! If people wish to stay in marinas, fair enough, but to have people who are anchored moved on is just down right bad! Especially as most of the marinas are full!!

 

[capnsensible]

Isn't this such a sad example of modern thinking. I haven't got it so therefore you can't.
What authority could and indeed would move people on though. I know our friends the Guardia aren't always the most open to reason, but it will be fascinating to see what view the law takes of this if it comes to it.

 

[ccscott49]

I would think the law would play the "pollution" card! effluent on the shoreline trick, the same one they played in pollensa to lay moorings and charge you.

 

[Skents]

It is truly dreadful.

I wonder what the marina whingers will say if they are banned from anchoring for a "lunch stop" in their favourite beauty spot.

The worst of it is that if the number of anchorages are cut then those that are left will become more and more overcrowded and the pollution issue more prominent and eventually all anchorages will end up as neatly governed areas with moorings that cost an arm and a leg.

It's also happening in the Caribbean - Marigot Bay is now a moorings only area and I believe the Tobago Cays is now subject to an anchoring fee. Where one leads soon all follow....

It might not be a problem for six working people on a charter boat who are in holiday spending mode. It is worrying what it will mean for the longterm liveaboards on small or fixed incomes who manage to live economically by avoiding the money pits of marinas and paid for moorings.

No doubt national security paranoia will also be used as an excuse to make us all tie up in a place where we can be logged, registered and charged heavily for the pleasure!

They say the "wind is free" - pretty soon it will be the only aspect of sailing which is.

 

[Happydaze]

We shouldn't be leaving effluent on the the shoreline, we should use holding tanks in anchorages as well as harbours and dump it out at sea, then we can go swimming, not just go through the motions! We have lost too many anchorages already to the greedy without the green-eyed brigade joining in.

 

[Anonymous]

They gave no reason to me when I was moved away in Torrevieja, twice. Once after about five days and then after one night. Very heavy-handed and intimidating which is not a normal characteristic of the Andalucian people - quite the opposite. It is certainly fuelled by yachties in the marinas there....at least one of those posts in this forum and might jump in. It would be nice to hear one of them make a reasoned argument in support of their behaviour.

 

[Nat]

Well Lemain.
I thing I know the two cases you are talking about. One was a complete lowlife waster who was reknown for beating his girlfriend & went off to the mar menor for his own safety (on the yacht paid for by his girlfriend) after he attacked & badly hurt a well respected member of the Torre community.
The other one took an old unseaworthy ketch or other down to the mar menor & deliberatly ran it aground up near lo pagon, lived on it for while & then abandond it.
This point has been raised many times about moving people on but there are generaly two sides to every story.Unfortunatly the innocent yachtsman sometimes gets caught up in the aftermath of problems caused by scumbags.

regards ...Nat

 

[ToMo]

Quote>I wonder what the marina whingers will say if they are banned from anchoring for a "lunch stop" in their favourite beauty spot.<

Aah but they won't be! and they will achieve what I suspect they wanted in the first place, somewhere to poodle off to for a nice little lunch with all their local friends without horrid cheapskates getting in the way.

/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I know the two cases you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't mention two yachts, I mentioned two marina-yachties who said that they were anti-anchoring. I have certainly not heard of the cases you mention. In my view, yachts that cannot or do not move lose the status of 'yachts' after a certain time becoming houseboats or hazards (or both) but I am talking about sailors who enter an anchorage (e.g. Torrevieja) and are turned out. I am not sure that there should be any time limit, should there? If there is, we ought to be talking about six months, minimum, being the time countries normally use to determine 'resident' as distinct from 'visitor'.
[ QUOTE ]
This point has been raised many times about moving people on but there are generaly two sides to every story

[/ QUOTE ] If the issue has been raised many times then presumably it is a pretty large and well-known problem? Can you give us some background from Torrevieja, if that's where you are based? I'd like to understand where they are coming from on this. When you say that there are always two sides, on two occasions I anchored in Torrevieja and was turned away - once after about a week and the other after one night (I was told to leave the following morning on the day of my arrival so I had less than 24 hours). I have a modern yacht, I don't beat my wife (but what's that got to do with my mooring arrangements?) and I spend in local shops and restaurants. I stay in places for between a couple of nights and a few weeks, usually. I don't budget for marinas in the sailing season so if I am turned out of an anchorage I certainly don't go into the adjacent marina (and will never, ever, go into any marina in Torrevieja as a protest - I was told that I am not welcome and that's that). I would be intrigued to hear any possible 'other side' to this story.
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunatly the innocent yachtsman sometimes gets caught up in the aftermath of problems caused by scumbags.

[/ QUOTE ]I've been told by the marina dwellers that they are upset by non-paying yachts that anchor. Perhaps this is a case of a very, very few scumbags being used as an excuse (alongside Englander's pollution argument) to drive cruising yachtsmen into marinas for a) commercial reasons (marinas) and b) anger (marina-dwelling yachties)

 

[wagenaar]

Just to mention it, Torrevieja is not Andalucia but Comunidad Valenciana. According to the spanish newspapers Torrevieja is the base of the russian mafia in Spain, maybe this has something to do with the problem
I have been in Torrevieja a number of times. The first time was in the winter of 1995/96, when I kept my boat in the marina there and already then it was mentioned that it might not be possible to anchor in the harbour. I did though, for a short time in the spring to clean the hull and no one came to send me away. The second time was in 1999, then also in the marina. Again I recall that people mentioned that it was not allowed to anchor in the harbour. One of the reasons mentioned was for safety, due to the ships , which came in to load the salt.
It looks as if Torrevieja is a special case.
The fact that people moored in a marina complain to the authorities about people at anchor just because of jalousie proves how far the unity among sailors has disappeared.

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that people moored in a marina complain to the authorities about people at anchor just because of jalousie proves how far the unity among sailors has disappeared.

[/ QUOTE ]We used to call it 'sneaking' and only the most pathetic specimens would do that and then at the risk of being treated with utter contempt by every right-thinking person.

 

[douglas_family]

We spent a couple of weeks in the Mar and had no trouble from any authorities. although we did meet a few unfriendly windsurfers who felt our preferred anchorage was in their way!

We also spent 6 weeks in Torrevieja (Marina Salinas) which is a port and not an anchorage although the pilot states that anchoring is permitted within the harbour, this i think is an unusual concession. The new marina occupies a lot of the space that would previously have been available to anchor. While we were there we observed a number of anchored yachts who spent as long as a week there. Who was it that moved you on? The international marina had many signs up preventing dingy landing and refused to sell us Internet access as we were not a paying customer! However they did after we requested allowed us to land there to visit the chandlery for an hour at a time.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, we have not had any problems in MM but someone in the other thread mentioned that they do move people on - I haven't experienced that myself and have not met anyone who has.

As for Torrevieja, we stayed there for around two weeks in May 2006 with no problems at all but on the next two occasions in 2007 we were moved on by the police launch in a very unfriendly manner, I would add.

I suspect that the police do nothing until someone makes a complaint and that someone might be a yachtsman.

The pilots don't seem to have a problem with yachts - when I was there in 2006 the pilot boat asked politely for us to move, for a shipping movement, which we did, we just moved where we were asked to move no problems.

 

[Sequoiah1]

Having spent a few days in Torrevieja a few years ago on a boat passing thro, i cant imagine anyone wanting to stay anywhere near the place no matter how good the anchorage was. On a more serious note I dont think you are ever going to get away from this mentality in others and the world is getting a lot smaller, its going to get worse, so I think its a case of either having to put up with it or put up a fight, you are in another country and have to respect others opinions even if some may be ex pats.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Lemain,

Just to explain my friends and others objections to those anchoring in the Mar Menor. The objections were initially NOT that they were anchoring, but that many of the sailors came into the Tomas Maestre marina and 'stole' water.

Apparently the marina authorities tolerated this for a while, but then two or three boats actually started going into the marina regularly in the late evenings after the office had shut, plugging into the electricity to (presumably) charge their batteries, then pushing off early in the morning to avoid paying.

It was this behaviour (from Brit yachts BTW) that put everyone's back up. Personally, I would also feel annoyed if I was paying for these facilities !

It's always the few who wreck it for the majority isn't it? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[roly_voya]

I am afraid this looks like the 'rats in a cage' sydrome, If you crowd two many animals together in too small an area they will fight for space. This applies just as much to people as any other animals. Wandering sailors are both the underdog and have an advatage. They are the underdog in terms of local power because they do not have a history, wealth or status invested in the local community so tend to be the most vunerable to being pushed out when it gets full. They have the advantage though that it is no great hardship to move on, nothing lost except the chance to see that place. On the bright side this only happens in sevearly overcrowded places such as areas of the Med, Carribian, S england. I think it is a perhaps unfortunate fact of life that as more people want to 'buy' a slice of the good life in these places they leave no roome for those adventurous soles who first pioneered it. They also tend to disrupt and dilute many of the things that attracted those pioneers, local folk customs become turist shows, hospitality becomes sombodies income and they no longer welcome 'non-profitable' visitors.
Its the way of the world, you either move to somewhere less crowded or you 'fight' for your place but if you figh you invest in and anchor youself to that place ans so lose the freedom of the traveller. Catch 22

 

[Troutbridge]

Although I try to avoid marinas when cruising (budgetary reasons more than anything else) what you've described is theft, pure and simple. I agree with you, if I was paying for a berth and the charges included water and electricity I would also be peed off if some scrote came in over night and stole something that I was paying for. HOWEVER, it's a bit of a jump to then ask the authorities to move on any yacht that's at anchor. I know you didn't say that you had been instrumental in approaching the authorities, so for 'you' please read 'one', but 'authorities' are the same all over the world....they can only think in straight lines. If one (rightly) complains about scrotish behaviour, then in the collective mind every transient yacht is manned by undesireables and must be moved on. The law of unintended consequences at work!

 

[somerset]

Having spent 18 months or so in the Marina Internacional at Torrevieja I have to say that it never bothered me (or anyone I spoke to) that people were anchoring in the harbour.The only mention made was that in the past people from the anchored yachts (described to me as 'hippie types') had been using the marina to get free water.It was also said that some of them had been involved in pilfering.This had had been put paid to by forbidding people from yachts at anchor to come ashore via the marina.Early in my stay I was challenged several times by marina staff and had to explain my presence there.I did not mind this at all.I was also told that the Harbourmaster 'Oscar' could be unpredictable and dictatorial (which could explain the problems you had Lemain) but I never had dealings with him so I can't comment.I think anyone who complains about yachts at anchor just because they are there is an a*****e.