Marina over mooring prices

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robertj

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Apologies for the disjointed lists but completed on iPhone without the ability to go back and correct.

If one equates this to house/land as a tennant it would seem it's more expensive to live in a crowded block of flats with less running costs for the owner than
living a little out of town in a detatched property with more running costs for tge landlord.



Please can someone explain why marinas are in fact more expensive than swing mooring?

As i see it, marinas have an advantage of the convenience of getting to and fro ones boat over having to dinghy out to a mooring, giving the advantage of equipment/stores transfers are a damn sight easier.

Look at the down side.

Costs, crowded close quarter occupatoin, difficulty in access in and out of berths due to metre pinching aisles, secures on lines stressing the craft more.
If one looked at this in housing terms then it would seem that the costs would be reversed.

Now look at it as the authority

the craft are crammed in together requiring less space.
Maintenance of pontoons easier.
Less specialised craft needed
less specialised labour in servicing
reduced risk being patially land based

this lists could be expanded on.

Mooring operators/harbour authorities
the cost of servicing moorings servising
specialised craft and associated cost and upkeep
specialised labour.
Health and safety implications of said servicing.
The space moorings take up.
Difficulty in policing.
More specialised staff encompassing the different responsibilities needed.
Etc.




Mooring down side
travel to and fro
security against loss or harm

Mooring plus
your neighbour isn't ontop of you
boat secured to mooring with less stress
usually in a nice location with varying views
ease of access and pick up
peaceful.
 
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I went into a marina (Chichester marina) for a while for the first time earlier this year, I thought it would be a pleasant place to be but music playing until midnight, four owners using their boats as caravans on the same aisle and all the associated noise (bloke coughing every 2 minutes - needs to get a bloody X Ray) belching cooking smells, tramping up and down the pontoon, swearing with my kids around, no privacy grump grump - It's just like being in Butlins, give me a peaceful mooring in wonderful scenery any day ;)

Nothing like morning moan :D
 
You're forgetting the capital cost

How much do you think that all that land shore side costs. Even if the cost of the bits of water is the same for swinging mooring and marina the marina will have a fortune invested in car parks/ hard standing that doesn't produce income itself. Retail units are a different matter as they should self finance from rent but ignoring those, the marina may well be paying a couple of hundred thousand per year in interest.

Look at the mooring equipment itself. A riser, buoy and share of ground chain will only be a couple of hundred tops to buy. How much is 1/2 a finger pontoon plus a share of the main walkway- considerably more.

Finally what about the showers, water laid on electricity, security etc all cost money.

I like moorings but your analogy is incorrect.

You should be comparing a mountain shack with n facilities to a penthouse serviced apartment.

I'm all for more berths, just more that are somewhere between the two.
 
I've lived FT in a marina 2.5 years, thankfully loud music & other idiocy has only been a problem a couple of times. It's inexpensive compared to renting a house/flat, would be difficult to work/live on a swinging mooring...
 
jac said:
How much do you think that all that land shore side costs. Even if the cost of the bits of water is the same for swinging mooring and marina the marina will have a fortune invested in car parks/ hard standing that doesn't produce income itself. Retail units are a different matter as they should self finance from rent but ignoring those, the marina may well be paying a couple of hundred thousand per year in interest.

Look at the mooring equipment itself. A riser, buoy and share of ground chain will only be a couple of hundred tops to buy. How much is 1/2 a finger pontoon plus a share of the main walkway- considerably more.

Finally what about the showers, water laid on electricity, security etc all cost money.

I like moorings but your analogy is incorrect.

You should be comparing a mountain shack with n facilities to a penthouse serviced apartment.

I'm all for more berths, just more that are somewhere between the two.
Click to expand...

Me thinks you are being to kind to marina operators. I am currently in southern Brittany looking for a marina berth. There are waiting lists in many but prices are MUCH lower than the UK south coast. Example: €1250 annual berthing for a 26 footer in Brittany versers £3100 in Cobbs quay, Poole.

House / land prices look pretty high near the coast, as in the UK. So one has to assume someone is wanting or needing a much higher profit margin.

An exodus from marinas (Cobbs Quay have 260 empty berths apparently) will either put prices up even more or force a rethink of business strategy. Lets hope for the latter.
 
jac said:
How much do you think that all that land shore side costs. Even if the cost of the bits of water is the same for swinging mooring and marina the marina will have a fortune invested in car parks/ hard standing that doesn't produce income itself. Retail units are a different matter as they should self finance from rent but ignoring those, the marina may well be paying a couple of hundred thousand per year in interest.

Look at the mooring equipment itself. A riser, buoy and share of ground chain will only be a couple of hundred tops to buy. How much is 1/2 a finger pontoon plus a share of the main walkway- considerably more.

Finally what about the showers, water laid on electricity, security etc all cost money.

I like moorings but your analogy is incorrect.

You should be comparing a mountain shack with n facilities to a penthouse serviced apartment.

I'm all for more berths, just more that are somewhere between the two.
Click to expand...

Not all moorings are laid to a ground chain, the ones where I am are on individual sinkers / anchors, my mooring which is only for a small boat cost me the thick end of £400-00. Only pointing it out because your "couple of hundred" is way off.

For all the supposed downsides, I much prefer a mooring to a marina, and not just because of the cost, but for me, it's just a so much nicer place to be.
 
zikzik said:
Me thinks you are being to kind to marina operators. I am currently in southern Brittany looking for a marina berth. There are waiting lists in many but prices are MUCH lower than the UK south coast. Example: €1250 annual berthing for a 26 footer in Brittany versers £3100 in Cobbs quay, Poole.

House / land prices look pretty high near the coast, as in the UK. So one has to assume someone is wanting or needing a much higher profit margin.

An exodus from marinas (Cobbs Quay have 260 empty berths apparently) will either put prices up even more or force a rethink of business strategy. Lets hope for the latter.
Click to expand...

It's just another symptom of rip off Britain, the marinas are charging what they know the well off will pay.
 
There are other pluses to a marina...

Electricity
Water
Easy access for services and tradesmen
Security
Safer access
Easy access for the user

I think a mooring works if you live locally to the mooring.
if you live any distance away... Say more than an hour and a half...then a reasonably priced marina berth in most parts of the country is at least as cost effective if not more per hours use than a mooring.

We came t this concision after spending several years on a mooring in Plymouth... Living 4 hours drive away we had to use a serviced morning from Tor Point marina, and whilst this cost circa 800 per annum, We also had to pay for either a winter haul out and storage ashore, or a marina berth for the winter.... Which meant our actual mooring costs were knocking on 2k per annum.

For this we had no electricity, suffered damage from people rafting up against us to fish, higher insurance, we could not access the boat after 9pm when the water taxi shut down... There was often a hours wait to get the water taxi... Any wind from the north and we couldn't spend time on board... No easy access to fresh water... Very difficult to get a work done on board....

So by spending a extra £1600 per annum we fixed all of those problems.... And we had better security for our car when we went n a cruise... Easy access ashore for meals.... I could keep the boat clean easily after a trip...

And more importantly we got a LOT more use from the boat... We could come down n a Friday night... Which we couldn't before.


So There are a lot of hidden costs to a mooring which you don't have in a marina... In particular ease of maintanence..

Its fine if you have a rufty rufty boat that you maintaine yourself and you live within walking distance.....

But if you have something which you like to keep tidy, and you have elderly relatives who you like to take along, and a dog, and want to make maximum use of it and live a long way away... Then a marina wins hands down.
 
Business rate

Does anyone know exactly how much business rate a marina such as Haslar has to pay. Would not surprise me if it were not pushing 7 figures. It's a huge stealth tax that nobody ever talks about. Even small shops round the corner from me pay over twenty grand.
This all goes straight to HM Treasury, some peeps think it goes to the local authority but all they do is collect it for The Boy George.
 
photodog said:
There are other pluses to a marina...

Electricity
Water
Easy access for services and tradesmen
Security
Safer access
Easy access for the user

I think a mooring works if you live locally to the mooring.
if you live any distance away... Say more than an hour and a half...then a reasonably priced marina berth in most parts of the country is at least as cost effective if not more per hours use than a mooring.

We came t this concision after spending several years on a mooring in Plymouth... Living 4 hours drive away we had to use a serviced morning from Tor Point marina, and whilst this cost circa 800 per annum, We also had to pay for either a winter haul out and storage ashore, or a marina berth for the winter.... Which meant our actual mooring costs were knocking on 2k per annum.

For this we had no electricity, suffered damage from people rafting up against us to fish, higher insurance, we could not access the boat after 9pm when the water taxi shut down... There was often a hours wait to get the water taxi... Any wind from the north and we couldn't spend time on board... No easy access to fresh water... Very difficult to get a work done on board....

So by spending a extra £1600 per annum we fixed all of those problems.... And we had better security for our car when we went n a cruise... Easy access ashore for meals.... I could keep the boat clean easily after a trip...

And more importantly we got a LOT more use from the boat... We could come down n a Friday night... Which we couldn't before.


So There are a lot of hidden costs to a mooring which you don't have in a marina... In particular ease of maintanence..

Its fine if you have a rufty rufty boat that you maintaine yourself and you live within walking distance.....

But if you have something which you like to keep tidy, and you have elderly relatives who you like to take along, and a dog, and want to make maximum use of it and live a long way away... Then a marina wins hands down.
Click to expand...

Rufty Tufty Boat!!!:eek:

There are plenty of beautiful yachts on moorings my good Sir! I would also saying picking up or letting go a swinging mooring is a perishing sight easier than fiddling your way around a marina and struggling with the wind and a boat that don't like going backwards!:)

No to be fair, your points are valid, and if it works for you and you can afford it, then fine.

Which brings me to the other point I would like to make, marinas are really only a viable proposition for people who have got the money to throw at their exorbitant charges. It's all very well for people to bleat on about how much the poor marinas have to pay in business rates and all that, but the truth is that if they didn't think they could screw the well off, they wouldn't build the bloody things in the first place.

Cards on table, I don't like marinas, because I think they are a blot on the landscape, to my eyes they are an affront to the natural order of things. There have been many beautiful little harbours and ports that have been ruined by their presence.

Yes, I may well be old fashioned, but it doesn't necessarily mean I am wrong, one can still be right even if one is in a minority!:)
 
Marinas cost about the same as static caravan parks, so on that basis I suppose you could argue they are not really "overpriced". If they were they would be empty. I wouldn't want to use one, but then I've only got a small boat and I only live ten minutes away from my mooring. I think the estimates about ground tackle costs are way out, mine for a little 21ft boat cost me just under £400 and I got some really good deals on the gear. It may be a bit "over the top" for the boat size, but I think it will give me a few years.
There seem to be two kind of sailor, those who invest a significant proportion of their time and money in the game and those who do it as just one of several hobbies. I'm in the second group and I don't think I spend any more on sailing than I do on fishing! Each to his own.
 
Don't forget the main drawbacks, security and parking, I have seen some lovely moorings over the years but with nowhere secure to park and leave a car, and then leaving a boat all on it's own without security? Moorings need to be checked regularly, and not without cost, your insurance won't pay out if a poorly maintained mooring is found.
I am particularly lucky to be in a private club with all the facilities and security and nice moorings too, but there are not enough little clubs to go round, perhaps syndicates could form to leese land, waterfrontage and build their own clubs, but with that comes responsibilities and wouldn't suit those that turn up pack the boat, enjoy their sail away, moor up, drop the rubbish in the bins provided, pick up the car from the secure carpark and drive away leaving the boat in the care of the Marina.
 
We used to keep our boat on a swinging mooring and it's terribly romantic and lovely and peaceful and you can show off by doing things like sailing on and off the mooring but with two young kids it became very fraught getting to and from it in anything other than very settled weather.

Echoing photodog, when we were only 45 minutes away we could work with this but our circumstances changed and we're now 3 hours away. Arriving after 9PM on Friday night means no launch service so to get to the boat you're on your own, with wife, kids and victuals to move, in the dark...

By moving into a marina we can still do weekends (theoretically, work permitting etc) because we can turn up at 10 or 11 pm on Friday night, walk up and load the boat safely then crash out ready for Saturday morning, or depart straight away tide and tiredness permitting.

Needless to say general maintenance is much easier especially as "popping down for a couple of hours" is not feasible for us. For a work-on-the-boat weekend simply being able to pop out to stores, the clubhouse, the pub and let the kids run around and annoy other berth holders is priceless.

On the east coast it's costing us probably £15-1700 more a year to do this compared to a mooring but the security and convenience of the marina berth far outweighs the extra. On the south coast the difference is much larger and it may be a more difficult to justify.

It's a personal choice based on finances, aesthetics and your personal circumstances, I don't think there's a right and wrong to it.
 
Saguday said:
We used to keep our boat on a swinging mooring and it's terribly romantic and lovely and peaceful and you can show off by doing things like sailing on and off the mooring but with two young kids it became very fraught getting to and from it in anything other than very settled weather.

Echoing photodog, when we were only 45 minutes away we could work with this but our circumstances changed and we're now 3 hours away. Arriving after 9PM on Friday night means no launch service so to get to the boat you're on your own, with wife, kids and victuals to move, in the dark...

By moving into a marina we can still do weekends (theoretically, work permitting etc) because we can turn up at 10 or 11 pm on Friday night, walk up and load the boat safely then crash out ready for Saturday morning, or depart straight away tide and tiredness permitting.

Needless to say general maintenance is much easier especially as "popping down for a couple of hours" is not feasible for us. For a work-on-the-boat weekend simply being able to pop out to stores, the clubhouse, the pub and let the kids run around and annoy other berth holders is priceless.

On the east coast it's costing us probably £15-1700 more a year to do this compared to a mooring but the security and convenience of the marina berth far outweighs the extra. On the south coast the difference is much larger and it may be a more difficult to justify.

It's a personal choice based on finances, aesthetics and your personal circumstances, I don't think there's a right and wrong to it.
Click to expand...

Just curious, if you be in Zummerzet, what you be doin' sailing out of Essex?????:eek::)
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Which brings me to the other point I would like to make, marinas are really only a viable proposition for people who have got the money to throw at their exorbitant charges.
Click to expand...

It depends where you are. On the East Coast my marina berth costs only a little more than a swinging mooring would on the south coast.

Cards on table, I don't like marinas, because I think they are a blot on the landscape, to my eyes they are an affront to the natural order of things. There have been many beautiful little harbours and ports that have been ruined by their presence.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the last time I went up the Hamble, for example, the whole river was a sea of masts almost it's entire length due to the number of boats on moorings. In contrast, the marinas with an equivalent number of boats take up a very small amount of space.

Personally, I would prefer another marina or two there in order that those boats that are actually sailing can enjoy the beauty of a relatively clear river.

Yes, I may well be old fashioned, but it doesn't necessarily mean I am wrong, one can still be right even if one is in a minority!:)
Click to expand...

:D
 
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