Marina man overboard

[vyv_cox]

Rule 1. Learn to swim!

Many people who fall into cold water die due to the shock effects, which causes a massive and disabling increase in heart rate. Some years ago I remember a man drowning in Bala Lake in May after capsizing a canoe. He was a powerful swimmer who swam a mile every day at home in the Scilly Isles.

 

[Stu Jackson]

When will you people ever learn. Health & Safety begins with you. Rule 1. Learn to swim! Also alcohol & boats dont go together..... A boat isn't a Caravan that goes on the water. Sure marinas can never have enought ladders & life rings. But you people need to stop moaning & start getting your **** together! Or else maybe, find a nice motor-home.....You're ruinning it the rest of us.

This is an issue for us over here, too. Our response has been to advise folks to look around for boats that can be more easily boarded, like powerboats with swim steps.

I kinda agree with this poster. One the one hand, you bemoan the "nanny state" and yet here you encourage it.

"All politics is local," so why not start with you, then your family and guests, then your harbormaster. Making this a national issue will undoubtedly result in the full monty of guard rails and the like, which make no sense.

As sailors, we rely on ourselves. Let's keep big brother out of it, they seem to mess up everything they touch.

Oh, we, too, lost a valuable member of our community a few months ago, a local and popular sailmaker who fell off his boat at night, middle of summer weather here. I lost a good friend.

Tying a "highwayman's knot" onto your stern ladder is a darn good idea.

 

[Seajet]

Sadly there is another factor at play; at my mooring, if I left a boarding ladder down or easily lowerable, it would be taken as a gold plated invitation by the yobs who like to either clamber on boats from the mud at least, more likely throw overboard anything they can then come back equipped to break in; others with that intention in the first place would also take advantage...

One only has to observe the shoreside rescue liferings, a magnet for lowlife to mess around with.

I can only suggest a waterproof VHF ( or mobile phone ) or means of attracting help, along with buoyancy of some kind; I had taken to wearing a lifejacket in the tender before my excursion over the side, maybe this should be standard in marinas ? If enough known experienced people do it, there should be no embarassment.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You don't need to leave it down, you only need to tie a knot that will let it come down.

 

[clyst]

Whenever we berth in a new marina we always check out the safety equipment . Ladders ,liferings and indeed firefighting equipment . Its also handy to put the night security chap's MOB number on your phone . OTT? maybe but if it hits the fan --------

 

[Seajet]

You don't need to leave it down, you only need to tie a knot that will let it come down.

Stu,

if you were replying to me, I did say 'or if I made the boarding ladder easily lowerable' - the low-life would still lower it to get on and make me regret they day they were born...the same goes ashore in boatyards & clubs, re. security if not MOB !

Clyst,

I always enter the marina/ HM no. at least, for that and more seamanship - type reasons, I agree a good idea, can suit less nautical crew members too.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Seajet, yes, you are right. Part I don't get: "easily lowerable?" Do you lock your boarding ladder in an up position? Most I've seen have line or maybe a ss clip. Seems any lowlife may be able to stand up in a dinghy and unwind your knot. Or maybe they are really LOWlife and can't stand up that high. Point being, I just didn't get your suggestion at all.

 

[simon barefoot]

Or we could just realise that our sport is sometimes dangerous. We are on the boundaries of an alien environment, just occaisonally it's going to bite one of us. We should face up to our own responsibilities in looking after ourselves, and not expect others to do it for us.
All the ideas for helping each other safety wise have been brilliant, perhaps we should try and disseminate them futher so they become standard practice.
After all, I think we have far more expertise and sense than some non-sailing H+S desk types.

 

[Seajet]

Seajet, yes, you are right. Part I don't get: "easily lowerable?" Do you lock your boarding ladder in an up position? Most I've seen have line or maybe a ss clip. Seems any lowlife may be able to stand up in a dinghy and unwind your knot. Or maybe they are really LOWlife and can't stand up that high. Point being, I just didn't get your suggestion at all.

Stu,

perhaps I should explain.

If I had a lowerable boarding ladder on the transom, I sadly would not leave a slip knot on it as the low-life might twig. If I did have such a ladder, I'm afraid I'd have to lash it tight; I have a folding step on the transom which I used to use when a fit youngster; I suspect the yobs are at least as fit as I ever was but it's difficult to hide, at least they'd have to be obvious climbing over the pushpit with obstacles like the lifering & GPS antannae brackets etc.

I've found that with yobs - as opposed to pro' thieves - it's a matter of putting up psychological more than physical barriers; though I fervently wish I could add 4,000 volts through the guardrails into the mix !

As for being handy for any unlucky bod nearby who's gone into the water; I do leave clues for boatowners to latch on to and get at least a hold on if they float near, but don't really see what else I can do ?

My mooring is very unlikely to have a passing floating person unless from my moorings, this prompts me to think we in my club should brief each other on how to hang on to each others' boats, folding steps / ladders / detachable guardrails etc.

I'd be happy to do that but as I mentioned, I went over the side of my boat and despite all that kit, couldn't get back without help; I'd have had to swim / float downtide and clamber ashore, quite a distance of maybe 500 yards + around thick mud; doesn't sound much until trying it in the water fully clothed, even with a lifejacket, without a LJ or Bouyancy Aid to assist swimming I suspect Goodnight Vienna.

At least 3 other owners from these moorings, all experienced, have done the same thing; one went overboard - same story, overturned the dinghy - in a wide, deserted part of the harbour in January, and was giving up, freezing & going under - when a marina workboat spotted him by pure luck as they passed !!!

I don't mean to drift from marina MOB's, but it strikes me as much the same problem; in the water, probably no help, and very difficult to get out.

 

[neil_s]

Hand S won't come and help you while you drown - they will just hassle everybody afterwards. maybe the marina operator or Joe P won't come either if it's a bit cold or after working hours or the works party is on. The chavs are always there in some way or other but not to rescue you. It seems to me that we could all help each other by arranging an obvious quick release on the stern boarding ladder - and it's got to be obvious - like a big knob with a sign saying 'pull here to deploy rescue ladder' I will think seriously about this on my own boat - please - everybody else do so too!

Neil

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Seajet, I get it now.

Yobs are certainly yucky.

There were a lot of things I used to be able to do, too, when I was younger. Trundling through mud even without heavy clothes on wasn't ever one of 'em.

I like the 4,000 volts idea. Only drawback is if someone comes on to tighten your clanging halyards - but I know that's not your boat, right

 

[misterg]

The essence of H&S as defined in the ISO1800(IIRC) standard.....

Eh?

I don't think ISO1800 exists. ISO18000 relates to RFID tags. OHSAS18001 is a safety management standard, but carries no legal weight.

HASAWA 1974 is the law, and covers this, as pointed out above (along with The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, and no doubt many others - glad to be away from it!). The marina operators are required to ensure the safety of paying punters (us) and Joe Public as well as their employees & contractors. As you say, though, there is evidence that the risk exists - railings here we come

One ladder per finger in our marina - It would be a bloody long swim to get to it if you fell in at an inconvenient place (and you can't see it!). I plan on making for our stern ladder which can be released from the water if I fall in near the boat. Pretty much goosed, otherwise unless I can find another boat to clamber up.

Andy

 

[Seajet]

Stu,

as I am of course a god-like being, my ( internal only ) halliards never frap, and I have only been described as 'yucky' when in the proximity of what was a chocolate cake; however I am lucky to be alive after going overboard , if that's what you meant ! .

I wonder if a 'first start' for marina berth-holders might be an agreement to leave boarding ladders down; after all it would not help thieves, and may well help unfortunate people who've gone in ?...

Of course boats would need to leave a tag on the tiller / binnacle / engine controls saying ' ladder left down' but if aircraft carrying live missiles can manage it, I'm sure boats can.


I really like the 'ribbon for a ladder left down' idea mentioned by Elessar on the Thames earlier, seems very public spirited and to be applauded; just needs some sort of night illumination...?

 

[Graham_Wright]

It seems to me that we could all help each other by arranging an obvious quick release on the stern boarding ladder - and it's got to be obvious - like a big knob with a sign saying 'pull here to deploy rescue ladder' I will think seriously about this on my own boat - please - everybody else do so too!

Neil

This is exactly what we did designing our "Ladderelle". It's a passerelle combined with a boarding ladder normally hinged up out of the water but released by a lever at the bottom end reachable from the water. The bottom rung stops around 2 feet below water level allowing you to get one foot on it. It was inspired by "Adrift" but, as a ladder for boarding, access from the dinghy, route into the liferaft and even (with a short extension) for boarding from the hard it is a way over the top solution. It is only its other use as a passerelle that redeems it. (You may have seen it at SBS).

BUT. A word of caution. We spent over 8 weeks arriving at a safe solution for deployment. it is necessarily heavy (because it doubles as a passerelle) and releasing it is a dramatic experience. There is no point deploying a ladder if you become unconscious in the process. We required the addition of gas struts to ensure a controlled deployment (introducing even more problems).

With a lightweight SS ladder, the problem is much less but please consider it.

 

[onesea]

My partner is fairly new to sailing the first Marina we went into I pointed out to her the difficulties of getting out of the water...

I do think its one area where improvement needs to be made, my tuppence worth...

Firstly: As being discussed we can help ourselves, leave your ladder so where possible it can be deployed from the water.

Secondly: Standardization, marinas should put fixed ladders in standard places (Maybe at the beginning and end of each row both sides)... Show them on all berthing plans, possibly at each point of access.

As for learning to swim and not drinking and motor homes... Backwards thinking is not the way forward...

Hell that's why the Titanic did not have enough life boats, it would not happen to her.

Being able to swim and not drinking does not mean we will not find the ice patch and be dunked in the water & before we know it, looking for that ladder....

 

[simon barefoot]

Or, from another angle, all pontoons should now be manufactured with some kind of foothold/integral ladder on each section. Im sure there must be a reasonably cheap retro fit ladder system that could be sourced.

Mmmmm, might get my inventing hat on.....!

 

[PetiteFleur]

How about those telescopic ladders that are advertised? could be easily fitted at suitable positions and then just pulled down - may need to be only about 4 or 5 rungs long though.

 

[Coaster]

Having just read this thread, quickly, I was surprised not to see any reference to marking of pontoon ladder locations (I may have missed it). In some marinas we've noticed that the locations of pontoon ladders are indicated by special markings on the nearest piles, usually a very prominent different coloured paint. These markings are obvious during the day and may be visible at night, depending on the lighting.

If you are marina based or visiting it's worth checking. You never know when you'll need a ladder...

 

[prr]

Sailors Knife Lanyard

I feel i maybe wasting my time, but here' s the S. K. Lanyard. It has 101 uses The main one is to stop your knife going overboard. It's worn round the waist with a clasp knife attached & slipped into the back pocket. One knot is running the other is fixed. Use No 56 is to get yourself back onto your boat again....As shown.

 

[vyv_cox]

I feel i maybe wasting my time, but here' s the S. K. Lanyard. It has 101 uses The main one is to stop your knife going overboard. It's worn round the waist with a clasp knife attached & slipped into the back pocket. One knot is running the other is fixed. Use No 56 is to get yourself back onto your boat again....As shown.

Have you tried it? Plastimo produced a supposed safety ladder that stows inside a tube mounted in the transom, here is one.. It has four steps connected with nylon cords that can be pulled out and deployed by a swimmer. It seemed like a useful addition so I bought one. We found it almost impossible to use as the steps swing beneath the boat, as your lanyard would do. We tried it in warm Mediterranean water wearing only swimming costumes. I can just about climb aboard using it using much arm strength on other fittings. My wife finds it utterly impossible. I doubt very much that I could use it wearing winter clothing in cold water.