geem
Well-known member
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Many riding out Storm Evert in the Scillies ?
- Thread starter Bathdave
- Start date
geem
Well-known member
When we got the latest forecast in the morning of the storm we upped anchor and made for the Helford River. The forecast at that time was for winds gusting to 56kts. The forecast was then showing an extended period of strong winds.
Two fellow OCC boats anchored in St Helens Pool decided to stay. The Oyster 55 faired well. They reported sustained 66kts for three hours at the peak of the storm gusting in to the 70s. The other OCC boat didn't fair as well. Their anchor started to drag so they ran their engine to take the load off the anchor but their engine overheated, presumably due to weed entering the raw water system. They ended up on the rocks and were airlifted off by helicopter.
We anchored in Helford River. Once there the forecast was updated by Falmouth radio to F10.
We had a sleep less night expected more wind. We did experience sever downdrafts off the wooded cliffs. We never saw more than 40kts on the wind instruments.
We had 7 boats with us in our anchorage. Nobody dragged. Next morning on lifting the anchor, it took some motoring out. The 30kg Spade had dug deep. We use a 12m long snubber. The motion on the boat was very comfortable despite the strong gusts. We never experienced any snatching. Two of the boats in the anchorage were veering around their anchors alarmingly. It didn't look good. By comparison ourselves and a 60ft classic sloop anchored next to us barely moved.
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Are you back from the Caribbean? How are your dogs?
geem
Well-known member
We are on our way back to the Caribbean. Currently anchored in Falmouth. Down to one dog who will be making her third Atlantic crossing?
Neeves
Well-known member
To add to Mathias Wagners ideas on snubbers
A 12m snubber sounds like my idea of a snubber (and 2 boats veering around their anchors alarmingly might take lessons from you).
What size, diameter of snubber were you using and what are the 'numbers' for your yacht.
We can all learn - you seemed to make the right decisions. But when the chips are down no-one is taking notes of what is/was happening, what worked, what did not - you are too busy firefighting, Knowing which anchors dragged and with what rode, how people lost anchors (and why) - what people might do differently next time (might be the best lesson).
Running for shelter is a remedy to which we can relate.
Jonathan
geem
Well-known member
44ft ketch, circa18 to 19t depending on fuel/water load. 30kg Spade anchor ( not over sized). 15mm diameter snubber.
I got some feedback from friends who stayed in Scilly. Oyster 55 using a Rocna 55 anchored in St Helens pool. No problems encountered. Waves no bigger than 2.5ft. water about 6m at HW that corresponded to peak of storm. 55m of chain deployed. No room for more chain to be deployed. Winds sustained high 60s kts gusting into 70s.
Vagabond 42 ketch using a CQR dragged at 50 kts. They had a manual windlass. Tried to retrieve chain to re-anchor but snatch loads on windlass broke the windlass and all chain and anchor was lost. They had no spare anchor or rode to deploy. They motored until engine over heated then ended up on rocks. Lifted off by helicopter.
Yacht is still on rock but being a heavy grp hull is not holed.
Neeves
Well-known member
If you know accurately the length of your oniginal snubber, you said 12m - then measure it again. It will be interesting to identify how much (if any) permanent elongation you might have suffered (I note that maximum wind was only 40 knots). I'd recommend you have spare snubber if you insist on living so dangerously.
O don't understand not having both a spare rode and an anchor, equivalent to the primary, sitting ready and waiting on the foredeck. Its not hindsight, nor lack pdf confidence - if you have out, why not have it ready - we do it all the time.
Jonathan
Scillypete
Well-known member
Vagabond is still aground but should hopefully come off ok when the tides pick up enough later this week 
John_Silver
Well-known member
To add to the knowledge pool, this is the perspective of a smaller, lighter boat, which rode out the storm, at anchor, without incident. In hindsight, incidentally, I would advocate Geem’s, seek-shelter-in-a- mainland-port, as the more seaman-like solution.
I anchored Stargazer, a 5t (laden) Hallberg Rassy 310, 9.5m LOA, in New Grimsby, on the western side, as much in the lee of Bryher as I could get, just north of Anneka’s Quay. This anchorage, I believe, had better shelter than St Helen’s - although it was no millpond: three heavier boats towed their moorings. All these were on the eastern side, of the sound, where the swell looked worse and Bryher’s lee would be reduced.
We have ‘bog standard’ coastal cruiser ground tackle: 16kg Delta, a three metre snubber and an 8mm rode. I was only able to deploy 24m, out of our 50m of chain, (high water depth 7.4m) due to the proximity of moored boats. At high water we were therefore on a basic three to one scope.
As I say, it is not an approach which I would take again. Fortune smiled on us that night. But factually, we came through, unscathed, in the manner described.
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JumbleDuck
Well-known member
On the monster anchor thread currently running you have been saying - as far as I can tell - that smaller anchors are better than big ones because they set deeper and are less likely to foul.
Would you advise the people who dragged in the Scillies to use a smaller anchor next time?
geem
Well-known member
We have a second snubber that is 9m.If you know accurately the length of your oniginal snubber, you said 12m - then measure it again. It will be interesting to identify how much (if any) permanent elongation you might have suffered (I note that maximum wind was only 40 knots). I'd recommend you have spare snubber if you insist on living so dangerously.
O don't understand not having both a spare rode and an anchor, equivalent to the primary, sitting ready and waiting on the foredeck. Its not hindsight, nor lack pdf confidence - if you have out, why not have it ready - we do it all the time.
Jonathan
Yes, having no spare anchor ready to go is frightening.
A big part of our reason for leaving the Scilly Islands before the storm hit was the number of numpties anchored close by. There was one guy who anchored a couple of boats away that I had a chat to. It had taken him three attempts to set his Rocna. I asked him how much chain he had out. He said 20m. He was anchored in 8m of water. I asked him if he was going to put more chain out. He said probably. The reality of having guys like this dragging down on us in 50+ kts doesn't bear thinking about. It doesn't matter how good your ground tackle is and experience.
Neeves
Well-known member
Some times people say the silliest things. I suspect they are bored and are simply trying to score a point.
How would I know. I don't know what scope they were using, what size anchor they were using, what anchor they were using, were they using a decent snubber. Did they have a back up anchor and spare rode (that matched their primary). Was their yacht prone to yawing, for example knowing a Force 10 storm was on the way - did they remove the headsail from the furler, take the dinghy off the foredeck. If you cannot be bothered to take the headsail off the furler - then I suspect you don't bother about other critical items either. There is no 'yes' and 'no'.
But if you search - most of the answers are on YBW
The anchor is part of a complete and compatible system and the use of the system is contingent on a number of factors.
But there are plenty of experts in the forum, ask them.
I'm on this thread to learn.
From some of the comments Geem has made - there was a incompetence, complacency and use of questionable styles of anchors.
The problem of trying to learn from anchoring experiences is that most of the information is missing. We know in this case yachts were driven ashore (and some wrecked) and one might think insurance companies would try to collate all the background, anchor design, size, scope, chain size etc etc. Hope springs eternal
I think one yacht lost their anchor - how on earth do you lose an anchor? The chain (if its standard 8mm) has a UTS of 3,000kg, the shackle at a minimum should have a UTS of 5,000kg (anyone here should be using one of a UTS 10,000kg). A decent snubber would remove the snatch loads. But then people don't use snubbers (no need, no science behind them), they don't use the suggested shackle, (too much like hard work.....) etc etc
Now go and ask the trolls what shackles they use on their rode, do they know the quality of their chain, do they use a, decent, snubber. When did they last check their shackle mousing wire -need I go on.
Anchor size is only part of their problems.
Jonathan
geem
Well-known member
Hi Jonathan,
Just measured my 12m snubber and guess what? It's still 12m long. Doesn't seem to have grown an inch?
glynd
Active member
Your mistake there was measuring in metric
Neeves
Well-known member
Most of us are bilingual (?) in technical measurements, lbs and kgs, metre and yards (or inches), barrels, litres and pints.Your mistake there was measuring in metric
. Trust us - we speak your language. Jonathan
Neeves
Well-known member
Your choice of snubber sounds right. If it had stretched permanently it would have been prudent to retire it (to a deck line) - unchanged, its good.
You are good to go.
Take care, stay safe
Jonathan
doug748
Well-known member
Excellent.
Were the boats veering around of a particular type....... wheelhouse, light displacement, small size, high windage? Maybe using chain or rope?
Or did it seem random?
.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
In which of these circumstances would you advise them to use a smaller anchor?
geem
Well-known member
The veering boats had clutter on their foedecks. I think the windage forward of the mast was causing them to sail about. One modern AWB didn't have the foredeck cargo but was doing a lot of sailing
zoidberg
Well-known member
There's food for ( fore ) thought here - Skip Novak's 'How To'
We may not all carry 4 deck-mounted drums of 22mm Polysteel, nor wish to give room to large loops of old galv wire rope, but when cruising 'down west' or 'out in the Western Isles' it might be thought prudent to carry on board gear suitable for riding out a Named Storm a la Skip Novak.
Rhetorical questions - how many boats that had chafed-through anchor warps also had deployed serious antichafe sleeves such as shown in Novak's video? How many boats cruising the Scilly Isles had doubled or trebled their anchor tackle before heading away from their cossetting marinas? How many of the above boats' crews had no idea how to prep their boats to ride out at anchor a coming Named Storm - despite there being a rich body of 'how to' material available through the largesse of Yachting World/Pantaenius/YouTube and this place?
The anchor wonks among us will note, no doubt, the BFO CQR bower anchor carried and used by Skip Novak, as seen in the above video, just a handful of miles from Cape Horn.
'A good workman doesn't blame his tools....'
We may not all carry 4 deck-mounted drums of 22mm Polysteel, nor wish to give room to large loops of old galv wire rope, but when cruising 'down west' or 'out in the Western Isles' it might be thought prudent to carry on board gear suitable for riding out a Named Storm a la Skip Novak.
Rhetorical questions - how many boats that had chafed-through anchor warps also had deployed serious antichafe sleeves such as shown in Novak's video? How many boats cruising the Scilly Isles had doubled or trebled their anchor tackle before heading away from their cossetting marinas? How many of the above boats' crews had no idea how to prep their boats to ride out at anchor a coming Named Storm - despite there being a rich body of 'how to' material available through the largesse of Yachting World/Pantaenius/YouTube and this place?
The anchor wonks among us will note, no doubt, the BFO CQR bower anchor carried and used by Skip Novak, as seen in the above video, just a handful of miles from Cape Horn.
'A good workman doesn't blame his tools....'