Man overboard - and the answer is:

[Sixpence]

Might be just the way I'm reading it then, but our l/j's turned up today (manual puff type) so I gave it a go to see how difficult it was to get at the clip and even on dry land I have to admit it's not easy, but it's quite easy to let some air out to make it easier, not sure if it's the same with auto ?

 

[Cantata]

Dave, can I just check that you appreciate how your manual LJ's work? You don't have to 'puff' into them, you inflate them by yanking on the toggle that is dangling out of one side (usually the righthand side).
Both manual and auto have a top-up nozzle, that's where you let air out if you need to.
Sorry if this is a grandma/egg-sucking post! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

believe me, when you are in the water, you won't be wanting to let any air out!!!!!

 

[Zippysigma]

Superb, thanks for sharing it all with us. You should really try to publish this, it is far better than anything I have read previously.

looked good fun as well.

 

[sailorman]

why doesnt IPC publish an article based on the findings of our revered brethren

 

[Sixpence]

Dear Grandma /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Trust me, these are old and basic with a little breathalyser type tube next to me left boob for blowing them up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Not perfect, and not the best, but they'll do for now /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]
why doesnt IPC publish an article based on the findings of our revered brethren

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why (I could offer several suggestions /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ), but they should.

 

[Auntie Helen]

Well I PMed Dan Foley with the link to this thread so if they think it would be of use to the mag I'm sure they'll get in touch. I doubt it though as they covered it in the fairly recent article.

Sixpence, the problem with the lifejackets wasn't when they are being worn normally with the harness point used for clipping on, its once they're inflated. I suppose the RNLI don't pull you up by the lifejacket anyway, if they rescue you, but we used the lifejacket clipping point as it's all that would be available in our MOB situation and it was tricky. I think the fact that both James and AliM found breathing difficult when being hoisted was rather sobering.

Although it was fun mucking about in the water, especially with the opportunity to test-fire some out-of-date lifejackets (which all worked as required), it was also a very serious lesson in how difficult it is to recover a casualty.

 

[Cantata]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Grandma /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Trust me, these are old and basic with a little breathalyser type tube next to me left boob for blowing them up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Not perfect, and not the best, but they'll do for now /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Dear David,
Now you take care there you young scallywag or I'll cut you out of my will.
Luv, Granny. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Aw shucks /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sixpence]

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[MoodySabre]

Lifejacket issues:

If you were singlehanded and went over when clipped on then your LJ could inflate. This would severely restrict your ability to climb back on board. I have stopped wearing an auto-inflate whilst on my own and wear a manual inflate. Letting the air out is a two-handed job and fairly slow-dangling at an angle getting wet it would be very hard. Unconscious on your own I don't think it would matter what you were wearing!

Some single-handers prefer just to wear a harness.

As I said above, some LJs have a separate webbing lifting strap so that you don't have to struggle to clip a rescue line on to the harness clip at the buckle. I shall look out for one of those when next buying.

We didn't try dangling off a lifeline as this would dangerous and might damage guardrails and stanchions. Jackstays down the side-deck would allow you to go over and possibly hit the water. The advantage is that you can walk the length of the boat whilst attached. A central jackstay or two (or with a double lifeline to enable you to get round the mast) would probably keep you on board. Most boats aren't suitably shaped to accommodate this.

Having some ideas and equipment to suit your sailing, your boat and your crew's ability seems to be the best you expect. The only thing that really works is not falling off the boat. I guess most of us have taken risks in the heat of the moment. This has been a bit sobering.

 

[Sixpence]

That does explain the extra webbing loop at the side of mine, couldn't work them out before, but I think my arrangement will allow me to work the whole boat from a single point. Sobering thought when read in conjunction with the post from Simon

 

[Koeketiene]

Worthwhile exercise, but please allow me my £0.02 - a factor seemingly overlooked - temperature!

As a matter of interest - how long did the average recovery take?

How was the water? Nice and warm (16-17°)? Would you have done this in March? Didn't think so.

Sobering thought - in winter you have on average 6 minutes to recover a MOB.
So, yes - stay on the boat!

- When it gets 'tippy' - always keep on the high side of the boat if you have to leave the cockpit.
- If it gets too tippy and you have to leave the cockpit - move on all fours. Standing up is for idiots & do clip on.

 

[Sixpence]

At least I've got that bit right anyway, always move on the high side and crawl if circumstances dictate it. I don't intend being over the top with safety but I do believe in common sense and being brave at the wrong time isn't sensible, or safe

 

[Cantata]

[ QUOTE ]
..............being brave at the wrong time isn't sensible, or safe

[/ QUOTE ]
To pinch an ancient pilots' saying:
There are old sailors, and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.

 

[AliM]

Yes, the temperature bit took me by surprise. James and Sean had wet/drysuits and kept reasonably warm. I went in in a swimming costume - nice warm day, sea at its warmest, no wind - about as good as it gets on the East coast - and after a couple of dips and recoveries, I was very cold. If it had taken 20 mins or so to sail back to me and rig the hoisting gear, I would have been hypothermic and unable to help myself much.

In winter, you probably have 10 minutes or less, then the casualty will be unconcious or nearly so. Recovering an unconcious casualty, we discovered, is appallingly difficult for a single person.

To answer the earlier question - we will be clipping on more and wearing lifejackets more often, but I do reserve the right to make my own decision on when to do so!

 

[MoodySabre]

Guapa - we did realise that all we attempted was done in nigh perfect conditions, with no sails up, quite unlike most real life situations which will tend to occur under sail in bad conditions. This serves to underline how difficult it is - if we found it hard to quickly and effectively deploy recovery techniques then it will be even harder in reality. Doing anything useful whilst controlling a yacht with sails up in a blow and rough water, particularly short-handed, is an alarming prospect. Avoidance of that situation is almost the only option.

 

[AJB43]

This is all excellent if sobering reading, well done to those who organised and took part. Just to add a copper coins worth. When wearing a lifejacket I always have a safelty line attached to it by both snap hooks and then looped round my neck when not in use. Having the line available would solve the problem of where to attach the lifting strop- it would also mean that the casualty could assist by passing the end to the recovery crew.
But again if the line is being used properly then going overboard wont be an issue, which is the main lesson shown!!

 

[peterb]

I wasn't there, though I've been to similar trials before.

One thing not mentioned is the use of a three hook harness line. Imagine a normal line, but about 50% longer. Now divide the length into thirds, and at one of the thirds put the extra hook. That hook goes on to your harness, leaving you with two lines, one normal and the other short. Moving around the boat use the long line on a jackstay; if you want to go up to the mast then leave the long line attached but put the short one round the mast then back to the harness. Gives you effectively an extra hand, and if you do lose a grip prevents a long fall onto the guardwires or beyond. Useful in the cockpit, too.

We have a ready-made block and tackle on board, with snaphooks at both ends. We used to stow it fully extended and ready to go, but found that it got into a beggar's muddle. Now we still stow it fully extended, but plait the falls with the snaphook securing the last plait. Undo the snaphook and the plait pulls straight out, without tangles, to be long enough to reach from the boom down to below the waterline.