Man overboard - and the answer is:

[Marmalade]

...don't fall off!

Great day had by all who attended the MOB practice on the Blackwater today - highly informative too to see and experience different techniques in use with real people; not fenders.

Mrs Chellers may well post some pics in due course.

 

[Sixpence]

Good to hear it went well, had a quick go at it up here too, though I'm not sure fishing a fire extinguisher out of the drink was anywhere near as hard as doing it with a person /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Auntie Helen]

Well we're back having had a great weekend. Huge thanks to Simon for providing such great service at Marconi SC and for his rescue boat help and barbecue lighting, and to his daughter for photographic services. Also thanks go, of course, to Roger (MoodySabre) for organising it. Thanks also to the Casualties, James and Sean (Shaun?), who were very willing to ingest a fair bit of East Coast River. Lifejackets were also donated to test – the autofiring one worked well...

...and although we had been warned that the ‘bang’ can be quite startling James said it was fine underwater. The manual one he tried (which was quite out of date) worked OK but some of the webbing straps got a bit caught over his shoulder. Both lifejackets kept him out of the water and stayed well inflated.

As is evident from some of the wedgies in the photos, James discovered early on that 2 crotch straps are notably better than 1! Being hauled up by a lifejacket is actually pretty uncomfortable and both James and Alison (who bravely went in in a swimming costume) discovered that as the lifejacket is lifted by the harness it makes breathing quite difficult. James recommended that if the person in the water was having a panic attack or had breathing difficulties from too much water ingestion that you lift them as quickly as possible. We didn’t do anything about lifting horizontally but understand there is an issue there too. All our lifts were done on the assumption that only one person remained on the boat – with more people one could perhaps be a bit cleverer.

The photos are uploaded and there's a rather long slideshow (171 photos!) here.
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll139/chellers-catamaran/MOB%20Weekend/?albumview=slideshow

We found it very helpful to work out what options worked best on our boat - and we gather other options may have been better on other boats. Anyway, this is what we learned.

1. Don't fall in!
2. If someone falls in and is rendered unconscious then you're pretty much done for.
3. If someone falls in, is conscious and isn't too cold, you might get them back on board – with their help.
4. Once a lifejacket is inflated it's very hard to swim with it
5. Once a lifejacket is inflated it's hard to reach the harness point – it has to be done by the casualty really
6. Once a lifejacket is inflated it renders the rescue sling rather awkward; in fact James found that when he put the rescue sling round him (wearing an inflated lifejacket) that it tended to turn him over so his face was nearer the water

7. Make sure that your system for rescuing the casualty is to hand in the cockpit and you have all the gadgetry you need for it. I had to go rummaging around in the anchor locker to find a large carabiner and it took too long.

Chellers already had a 6:1 pulley system with clutch. We discovered very early on that the clutch was extremely helpful; using it I could haul James in one-handed (I can't use my left arm properly) and although it was very hard work, particularly when his upper body was out of the water so he was heavier, it was possible if I used my body weight to help me pull (one of the photos shows me grimacing big time with the effort).

We had a pulley that we use for the spinnaker and discovered if we fit that round the stern cleat then we can direct the pulley rope onto the winch. At that point it was very easy to winch James up.

Our guests on board Chellers had a 4:1 pulley without a clutch. Alison couldn't lift James on her own without the winch but Gordon was able to. If a man's gone in the drink and a woman has to pull them up, you may well need a winch as well as the pulleys. If the man's wearing oilies then even a strong man might not be able to pull them up just using muscle power.

It was very difficult to clip the pulley onto the casualty. As mentioned above, the harness point disappears under the inflated lifejacket. It's also a long stretch down to the casualty floating in the water - and we have fairly low freeboard at the back. You'll see some pics of us leaning over the side of the boat to clip onto James; I wasn't able to manage it so he had to do it in the end.

We found that the rescue sling on the floating rope isn't much help except for presumably roping the casualty. It made the lifting harder, particularly because when we clipped to it the rope was so long that the pulley reached its maximum pulling height before James's backside was at deck level. Thus we found a large carabiner and used that instead but it still made him rather low in the water when we swung him on board.

The crew of Chellers will be buying a few large carabiners to have kicking around the cockpit in case of sudden need.

Our easiest-to-rig and quickest system was the elevated rope thingie. We used a mooring rope we had handy but our jib sheets would be long enough and are readily available. Just using the rope from front to back of the boat wouldn't work entirely as James couldn't balance well on the rope. When we provided a rope from the centre cleat for him to hang onto it was easy, he was hoisted up and stepped over the side. We tried using the anchor windlass but on Chellers it's not self-tailing and doesn't have a clutch anywhere and didn't work, plus we couldn't see the casualty from the middle of the foredeck. Simon thought it might work well on his boat as he has an electric anchor windlass. I gather when the other boat tried it they found if the casualty had bare feet that it wasn't very easy.

James experimented climbing into our dinghy and found that very hard. He managed to flop over the back of it but only by hanging onto a chain we have running across the back of the transom. Without that he may not have managed. If we deflated the dinghy a bit it may have been possible but this all takes extra time.

We didn't suspend the pulleys from the boom, by the way, but from the main halyard which we threaded through a shackle at the end of the boom. We weren't sure about hanging all the weight of a wet person from our boom. The halyard worked fine.

All in all it was a surprisingly informative weekend. We already made a habit of always wearing lifejackets but the necessity of this, and having the crotch strap done up, were very much reinforced. I noticed James clipping on during the sail back when doing something leaning over the stern! I feel a little more confident now that I could get James back on board if he fell overboard – but only really if he was conscious and able to help and it wasn’t too cold.

Once again, thanks to Roger and to Simon for their help – it was great to meet Pauline and Sean as well as Alison and Gordon, and of course to see Sheila and Roger again. I can very much recommend the experience of MOB practice with a real man.

The last chunk of slides are the view this morning from our boat as we waited for the tide to come in (we were aground on our mooring overnight). It was a beautiful morning although the river was a bit mucky. See if you can spot Sabre and May, the two other ECF boats! The last few shots, with the ducks flying over, were just wonderful. We couldn’t have had better weather!

 

[MoodySabre]

Thanks Simon - excellent club and location.

I must encourage more of you to have a go at MOB recovery because it was a very informative few hours with some surprises.

We did the exercises mostly with Sean (emnick) and Pauline on both Sabre and their beautiful Malo37 "May".

Sean was the casualty (or victim as AliM called them!) in a dry suit

We were doing this on a warm sunny day in flat water but with at least 2 knots of tide running so safety lines were used. In a seaway, well let's hope we never find out.

First a try of old manual LJ with a corroded cylinder

worked OK so I may not throw it away after all.

We then tried the "elevator" - basically a loop of rope from cleat into the water and back to a winch. The casualty needs a rope to hold as the effect is to pull their feet under the boat. Even non-floaty rope wants to float but once feet were in place this was easy, if a bit painful on the feet - less of an issue in an emergency.

We then then used the 4:1 mainsheet of Sabre, which unclips from the traveller with a snapshackle. This was lengthened, the boom swung out (additional support from the spini halyard). Once clipped on it was possible for me to haul Sean up but once the rope was on a ST winch it was very easy to lift his dead weight. This is next easiest to the elevator as it is quick to deploy, provided you are not sailing! Sean's boat has a traveller on the coach roof and so this is an non-starter.

The better alternative would be to have a dedicated block and tackle that could be hung from a halyard and taken back to a winch. Ideally this should have a jamming cleat like a mainsheet so that the strain can be relaxed without dropping them back into the water.

On Sean's boat we deployed an anchor staysail as a parbuckle

This was going well until we realised that we had only tied it by the corners and as soon as we got him to the toe rail he fell through the gap! A bit of string fixed that. Then James came over for a go and I was able to heave him into the parbuckle where he looked very cumfy

We put the halyard on the electric winch and he shot up the side of the boat. In reality this did take some time to fix up and would be good for a helpless casualty provided you could get a line on them in the first.

Once again an old LJ was tried

and once again it went off but was a bit tangled on one side

modern ones also have a lifting strap - these didn't even have a harness (will chuck them then).

Onlookers from Chellers with Simon and daughter (sorry name forgotten)

Lessons learned

Don't
It ain't easy
Different solutions for different boats
Ladies need an ST winch to lift a man - a man might be able to cope.
Don't rely on a panic idea - practice

Excellent event - we must get more to a re-run next season

 

[Sixpence]

Plenty for me to think about there, thanks, pity we couldn' make it but I think we get the message, don't fall in it is

 

[FullCircle]

Fantastic write up, so sorry I could not be there.
Interesting about the falling out of the sail. Hmm.

But I think I will invest in a bit of builders net and make it custom to Full Circle

 

[tillergirl]

That's really excellent. Photos are great and the lessons very helpful. I seriously think one of you should write it up - its pretty much done so already - and see if one of the mags will take it. You've all put a lot of work into this and it should be seen by more people.

Well done

 

[Saguday]

Fantastic - wish I was there, looked beautiful.

Thanks for the write-ups, though, useful info for everyone.

Cheers

Neil

 

[BAtoo]

The sail/parbuckle looks good. We have practised rigging our storm sail on the toe rail and using a halyard on the other end; that bits quite easy, never tried it with a body though.

Well done for trying though & sharing your piccies - you chose a great day for it!

 

[MoodySabre]

One thing I forgot:

We also tried out a throw line. This was a Trem throwline where you take a loop out of the bag, put it round your wrist and then lob the bag with an underarm swing.

First difficulty can be finding a clear position for an underarm swing - my boat has a gate in the pushpit so I used that whilst standing on the seat. The first attempt was not very good - although the bag is weighted you need a fairly high trajectory. The second attempt was quite good but in a real-life situation you may not get two goes as it take ages to stuff the line back in the bag.

The casualty can put their hand through a comfortable cloth loop on the end of the bag.

The long line is of fairly thin polypropolene. Trying to tow a heavy casualty against the tide was quite difficult for me and very hard on the hands - this thin line is also wet and you have to grip hard. It may fit round a winch but the pulling in of a 30 metre line would take a long time. Perhaps in a seaway the boat and casualty would drift at roughly the same speed provided you de-powered the sails. At least you had them on a line.

We did not try to rescue an unconscious casualty! I cannot see how you could do this from the deck. It would require someone in the water or a dinghy to attach a line to them and you couldn't do that in bad weather conditions or if short-handed. As Simon says at the beginning of this thread: an unconscious person is likely to be a lost casualty.

The other issue is how soon/if to give a Mayday. If there are more than two on board then one should give a Mayday immediately. If only one then stopping the boat is top priority and throwing a line is probably next. Actually recovering the person may take time but may save them from drowning by swallowing water. Certainly when sailing with just two of you it would be important to have a VHF in the cockpit rather then going below out of sight of the casualty.

 

[AliM]

Super write up. Thanks for an informative but also a day that was great fun. It was good to meet you all.

We had a perfect day - but it was worrying how difficult it was to recover the consious, fit victim on a mooring in flat water on a relatively warm day. I went in twice without a wet suit, and was already beginning to get very cold. I don't think you can rely on the casualty remaining fit enough to help after 20 minutes or so even in summer.

Another point: the 4 to 1 or six to one tackles get tangled easily, and take a lot of time to extend down to the water-line. Chellars' one had a line attached to the lower block which the casualty could use to pull it down to clip it onto himself, but had an awkward clip. We have now packed ours and labelled it, very carefully with all blocks to hand, so that it could indeed be rigged quickly, even in a panic.

Don't fall in was the abiding message, though.

MrsChellars - sent a PM

 

[tillergirl]

Just reviewed all the slides. They are so much better than anything I've seen in a mag about MOB. They really enabled you to think about how difficult it is and how long everything takes. Really sobering. I have to agree with the 'unconcious in the water ' point. It would take a supreme effort just to get hold of them let alone hoist them on board.

 

[catseven]

Wow! Excellent pics and desciptions.

Although I could not attend I feel I have learnt a lot from the forum replies posted.

Interestingly, earlier this year, I made up a 6:1 pulley system similar to the one in the Chellers pics. It's nice to know it may even do the trick in an emergency. It has a jamming cleat and plenty of rope so will enable it to reach both the casualty low in the water and a winch if needed.

It consisted of a lewmar 3 sheave blocks (one with a jamming cleat), various stainless shackles and carbine hooks and about 20m of 10mm rope. All the items were new and the total cost was about £65. For information I bought everything from Dauntless Chandlers on Canvey Island (Near Benfleet Yacht Club) which is like an Alladin's Cave with lots of end of range, bankrupt stock, and second hand stuff at reasonable prices (cheques or cash only!)

Thanks again to all the posters for the informative tips and insights. Of particular interest was the common thread that it was difficult in a flat calm and no waves to recover a casualty. Makes you realise how hard it would be faced with a real situation in strong winds and heavy seas.

So the bottom line is don't fall overboard...but if the worst happens then be prepared and have a recovery plan.

catseven

 

[Athene V30]

Re: Man overboard - and the Singlehanders answer most definately is:

[ QUOTE ]
...don't fall off!

[/ QUOTE ]

I will be taking the ladder off the stern as by all accounts it isn't a lot of cop if you need to climb out at sea and it is in the way of the wind gear. Will probably add one of these ladders in a bag if I can reach it from the water.

Did read of someone who towed a float / dinghy on very long line and if he fell overboard the plan was to swim to the line / boat and grab hold. If I am sailing at 5 knots can I really pull myself out of the water into the dinghy against the force of the water at that speed and then pull the boat back to 'mother' ship. I don't think so.

When singlehanded and out of sight of land or cold water sailing I think it will be harness (& hook it on) but not lifejacket. Why prolong the inevitable? So DON'T FALL OFF is the way ahead.

 

[Auntie Helen]

Re: Man and Woman overboard on Chellers...

AliM and Gordon have now sent me some more piccies which I've added to my photobucket slideshow but there are a couple I will post here as they are rather good.

James reminds me that I've called a 'cam cleat' a 'clutch' above. I apologise for my dodgy handling of nautical terminology. Bear in mind on Chellers we have a loo, kitchen, lounge and bedrooms!

Anyway, here are the pic of AliM/Gordon's photos.

How hard it is to clip the casualty onto the pulley (AliM was kindly being casualty so James could have a go). Imagine doing that in a rough sea!

The rather handy bit of string on the end of the pulley and below the carabiner. This enabled James to pull it down to him easily and not get whacked on the head by the bottom end of the pulley. I had to walk along the side deck a fair way to pull enough rope through the pulley that it could get near to him.

Maximum lift using the lifesling meant his backside still wasn't on deck. You can see how much his chest is being restricted by the various life-saving items!

Very elegant flopping into the dinghy - but it had taken some time, a lot of energy and he doesn't think he could have done it with the inflated lifejacket rather than his buoyancy aid.

Thanks for the kind comments about the writeup above and via PM. I might try and put my thoughts in a rather more linear form and see if I can make it more useful overall. Further comments on what worked on the other boats (the monohulls) would, I imagine, be much appreciated by the readers here as I think some aspects of our rescue were different because Chellers is a Cat (the elevator thing, by the sound of it, as the side of the boat is fairly vertical rather than curved like the monohulls).

 

[emnick]

Forgot to add we will be buying a 6-1 block and tackle ASAP, I think Rogers main sheet worked very well (best) and very quickly.
Very intersting that it is hard to see let alone use (clip on) the harness of an inflated life jacket (thanks Chellers)
If YM want some real test they know where to come !!

 

[sailorman]

Add a Snatch Block to the list

 

[MoodySabre]

Some lifejackets have a lifting strap that is long enough to come out of the LJ at high chest level (Stewart from Marconi showed me the strap on his), presumably for this reason. The harness clip is presumably for a lifeline or for lifting when not inflated.

 

[Sixpence]

Must admit that one thing I'm curious about following this weekend, is has this made anybody radically rethink thier plans or thoughts over which life jackets are best, auto/manual, and has anyone made any changes to thier thoughts about clipping on ?.
We have quite a small deck area but the angle is quite steep so our intention has always been to clip on to a line attached to the base of the mast when sailing, but I've increased that so as well as clipping on, if it's blowing enough to sail, it's blowing enough for a l/j to be used on deck. Don't like getting wet and it looks like the best thing to come out of this is the clear message, don't go overboard in the first place, which is sort of obvious anyway, but there seems to have been some problems caused by auto inflate jackets

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Nothing to do with Auto-inflation that I read Dave..... more just generally people realising that lifejackets are bulky, akward and restrictive, whether they be auto or manual... unless I misread it?