Man dies on Isles of Scilly after Border Agency raid on moored yacht

[MASH]

Freaked out by officialdom as a reason for falling off a mast? I assume this is some kind of joke?
Hard to imagine how any coercion could result in this, and an utterly bizarre thing to suggest.
And why can't the UKBA be interested in a Dutchman? That too is bizarre beyond belief!
People only climb masts voluntarily, no one can Make them do it. Obviously.

 

[jerrytug]

Freaked out by officialdom as a reason for falling off a mast? I assume this is some kind of joke?
Hard to imagine how any coercion could result in this, and an utterly bizarre thing to suggest.
And why can't the UKBA be interested in a Dutchman? That too is bizarre beyond belief!
People only climb masts voluntarily, no one can Make them do it. Obviously.

I know what you're saying Mash,the point one was making is that any closet BNP penile-challenged fetishists involved in the *massive quotes* "operation" could have left the old boy to get on with things for a bit,seeing as he was not a mega immediate threat to national security.

 

[Cardo]

I haven't read the article, but I get the gist from the responses on here (UKBA involved, Dutch chap climbs mast, apparently to try and get away for whatever reason, jumps, hits the deck, finite).

I always find it amusing how the initial blame goes to the UKBA. Then mention of "thugs", "cover ups", etc.

I presume you lot blame the police, too, when someone is being chased, tries to climb over a wall to get away, slips and breaks their leg(s)?

 

[Babylon]

I haven't read the article, but I get the gist from the responses on here (UKBA involved, Dutch chap climbs mast, apparently to try and get away for whatever reason, jumps, hits the deck, finite).

I always find it amusing how the initial blame goes to the UKBA. Then mention of "thugs", "cover ups", etc.

I presume you lot blame the police, too, when someone is being chased, tries to climb over a wall to get away, slips and breaks their leg(s)?

Having on several occasions over thirty years been on the thick end of police stupidity, aggression, venality, incompetence and outright abuse of their powers - but having also been properly served by them on numerous other occasions in that time - I prefer to keep an open mind.

As far as this incident involving the UKBA is concerned, whatever the facts behind it, a man became so scared of their presence on his boat that he died.

Nothing "amusing" there.

 

[savageseadog]

Ok guys enough jokes , a man as die there not really much to joke about , no matter what ever happened .

www.dufour385.webs.com

Absolutely, I thought I was the bad taste postmaster but these "jokes" are beyond the pale.

 

[fergie_mac66]

The last time they came on my westerly 22, not exactly a smugglers boat I suppose but I might be able squash 20 illegals in the forepeak!... .... Anyway It was good few years ago off Cromer, just me and my 2 ,about 11/12, children on board at the time.
They looked like some sort of nationalist militia, rather that a Uk border policing force. Actually not really a good look for representatives of a democratic gov', very intimidating. I had no issues with them coming on board , the children regarded it with excitement, however some people from other countries or who have been to other countries where Militia have some nasty frightening connotations, may well have instincts that make them want to run or hide from people so dressed

 

[Seven Spades]

As far as I can see the reports here are wrong. UKBA have denied any sort of chase. It sounds to me like he was towed in due to a rigging problem. Then while he was up the mast trying to fix the rigging someone boarded the boat and he fell off. I can't find any real reports of what happened with any details so that is speculation on my part.

 

[lenseman]

. . . . . however some people from other countries or who have been to other countries where Militia have some nasty frightening connotations, may well have instincts that make them want to run or hide from people so dressed

I think that what you are inferring is the fact that they are all dressed in black?

Sadly, this has innate and deeply ingrained racist connotations which are very difficult to irradiate. The culture that we in the western world have been living for the past few hundred years is that black is bad.

We have Black magic (bad) white magic (good) a notable example is to be found in The Wizard Of Oz where fairies are white and witches are black, I am sure you can find many more. All the cowboys in westerns either wore black or white hats, you wont need reminding who were the bad guys and sadly even today we have a polarised civilisation with blacks on one side and whites on the other. I am sure you can find many more examples.

There is no reason at all why they need to be kitted out, totally in black. If the Border Force dressed all in white, they would be accepted like Starshio Troopers.



.

 

[fergie_mac66]

I think that what you are inferring is the fact that they are all dressed in black?

Sadly, this has innate and deeply ingrained racist connotations which are very difficult to irradiate. The culture that we in the western world have been living for the past few hundred years is that black is bad.

We have Black magic (bad) white magic (good) a notable example is to be found in The Wizard Of Oz where fairies are white and witches are black, I am sure you can find many more. All the cowboys in westerns either wore black or white hats, you wont need reminding who were the bad guys and sadly even today we have a polarised civilisation with blacks on one side and whites on the other. I am sure you can find many more examples.

There is no reason at all why they need to be kitted out, totally in black. If the Border Force dressed all in white, they would be accepted like Starshio Troopers.



.

More than its the helmets, guns and boots Maybe white would be a good idea, Though the civil serpents would object to the cleaning costs

 

[lenseman]

More than its the helmets, guns and boots Maybe white would be a good idea, Though the civil serpents would object to the cleaning costs

They are not allowed to carry guns and are unarmed. The "gun" on the fore deck of their five patrol boats are in fact water hoses for fire fighting purposes only even though they are made to look very much like a small cannon.



.

 

[fergie_mac66]

They are not allowed to carry guns and are unarmed. The "gun" on the fore deck of their five patrol boats are in fact water hoses for fire fighting purposes only even though they are made to look very much like a small cannon.



.

Was a long time ago When I last saw them so stand to be corrected

 

[Mark-1]

As far as I can see the reports here are wrong. UKBA have denied any sort of chase. It sounds to me like he was towed in due to a rigging problem. Then while he was up the mast trying to fix the rigging someone boarded the boat and he fell off. I can't find any real reports of what happened with any details so that is speculation on my part.

I think you're calling it right:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/18/man-dies-yacht-border-force-raid

"there was damage to the rigging" - so that's why he was up the mast, not running at all.

Also:

"Customs officers had boarded the yacht two hours before the man fell from the vessel's mast." which isn't very consistent with a panic caused by uniforms.

Not that I accept for one minute the idea if someone runs from Uk authorities and gets hurt then Uk authorities are to blame.

 

[prv]

"there was damage to the rigging" - so that's why he was up the mast, not running at all.

Also:

"Customs officers had boarded the yacht two hours before the man fell from the vessel's mast." which isn't very consistent with a panic caused by uniforms.

Oh - so we're back to what I posited in post number 2?

Pete

 

[Babylon]

I think you're calling it right:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/18/man-dies-yacht-border-force-raid

"there was damage to the rigging" - so that's why he was up the mast, not running at all.

Also:

"Customs officers had boarded the yacht two hours before the man fell from the vessel's mast." which isn't very consistent with a panic caused by uniforms.

Where do you get "two hours before" from? How long did the UKBA people remain aboard? Were they aboard at the time the man fell from the rigging?

Another issue is this: The man, according to the Guardian report, was singlehanding and made his distress call because he "was suffering from fatigue and that there was damage to the rigging." It would not be unreasonable to infer that he was still in some state of fatigue on the day the UKBA boarded his vessel and when shortly thereafter he went up the mast. It would also not be unreasonable to infer that he was in a state of considerable stress precisely because the UKBA had been or were still on board his vessel. I'd be stressed by their presence, even if I wasn't a singlehander in my sixties with damaged rigging, having had to put out a mayday and suffering from exhaustion in a foreign land!

The whole circumstances of the boarding, any reasons for it, and what transpired during it are currently unknown, but it doesn't look particularly good for the UKBA. Do they not have a "duty of care"?

It is also not unreasonable to suppose that if the man was justifiably suspected - or there was actual evidence on board - of criminal activity or cross-border irregularity, then he would have been detained, rather than be left free to go up his mast.

 

[prv]

Where do you get "two hours before" from?

From the story linked in his post.

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

So it seems like it was simply an accident. More a lesson in the dangers of solo mast climbing than an example of state brutality.

 

[prv]

So it seems like it was simply an accident. More a lesson in the dangers of solo mast climbing than an example of state brutality.

I would suggest that we still don't know the answer.

Pete

 

[Mark-1]

we still don't know the answer.

That seems to sum the situation up, but I shall be avoiding Suzy's Bakery anyway. Not worth the risk.

 

[jerrytug]

What would be the best choice of mast-climbing gear in a similar situation?

 

[MASH]

Clearly not black as in the eyes of some of the delusionists here black clothing is "racist".
Quite how clothing can be racist is utterly beyond me, as is most of the ludicrous twaddle here that seems to imply that if anyone is hurt within sight to even within hours of any uniformed operation it is likely to be the fault of the uniformed service. Simply amazing anyone's mind can work like this, it must be a very frightening world for them with such Machiavellian brutes all around trying to do them in.