MAN 800 engines....

[Portofino]

Interesting this one looks like a minter . It’s a 43 just listed .
https://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=dbeabe47-814e-4894-bf12-dc3eaca12fa0

I post this as minimal finger marking high gloss cherry to maintain.Wood floor in the saloon no cream markable carpet to fret about either .

Got a modern feel inside .

 

[Sticky Fingers]

No we are on F pontoon you can't miss mine its the only boat with a black hull! there are no other Predators in the marina so unless it was a visitor, could however have been a my old boat a Camargue 50HT which is just in from the marina entrance. I did look at a Porto 53 before buying the Pred and from memory the LOA was just under 57ft.

Ah OK thx may well have been a visitor. Was black though (or v dark grey perhaps)

57ft is deffo too big. I'll think again. But this is very instructive

 

[MapisM]

Hay what are you doing the bore is 126 not 128 in the link .
Mines 128/ 176 , that link is 126/ 166

Changed the bores , rods , pistons , cranks .
Kept the block and heads .

We all have brain farts

Germans don’t make technical errors
Italians well let’s not go there

Doh! Indeed we all do.
Guilty as charged for having misread the bore in that MAN webpage, but have a look at the pics below and tell me who's the brain farts contest winner, between Italians and Germans... Change bores, rods, pistons and cranks my @rse!
Oh, not to mention that if your engines would be 128/176, their total displacement would be 13.6L, in my books.
You didn't want to miss the opportunity to join the contest, did you?

PS: btw, if you look at the table below, you can grasp what it means to REALLY change the stroke of an engine.
Just look at the weight differences between the V8/900 or V12/1360, which are the latest of the "old" stroke engines, and the other V8 and V12 with higher power - which is the evolution I mentioned in my post #12.

 

[Portofino]

@ MapisM
Happy to share that podium .
I was in analog pre CR mode
https://www.boats.com/first-look-man-2876-le-401/

Any how any is a great choice from a blank canvas POV ,as I said the D 28 inline 6 and it’s derivates are “ bombproof “ there’s plenty of builders use them as demonstrated with the smaller 14/15 M Pershings

 

[DAW]

Hi!

As mcanderson said, I have a Portofino 53 MKII with the MAN 800 engines. Before this I had the P53 MKI with VP D12-715s, so I have real world experience of owning both boats for 2-3 years.

I think the D12 is a good engine and I was totally happy with mine. However, in my view the MAN engines are in a different league in terms of performance and refinement. The performance differential is more that just hp related. The MAN engines seem to have much more torque, the boat accelerates quicker, cruises at 26-28 knots with much less noise and vibration and achieves a considerably higher top speed (+4-5 knots). The MANs just sound and feel better in almost every way.

In terms of reliability and cost to maintain and run, I've found them to be about the same. Servicing, parts, responsiveness, etc. from the local MAN and VP agents are all about the same. There are more VP agents to choose from, but I'm not sure this makes any difference when the MAN agents all seem to be good (which you can't always say for the VP agents). Fuel consumption seems to be about the same, although I have to admit we don't really check this too carefully. I suspect the MANs are more highly stressed and need to be looked after more carefully, but provided this is done there shouldn't be any problems. We've had no problems other than the usual wear and tear.

One aspect I really didn't like about the D12s was the EVC control system. During the time I owned the boat we had to replace both of the helm ECUs (at a cost of EUR 4K each) and even after replacement the electronics were always temperamental with lots of error messages and resets needed and occasionally throttle levers behaving like they had a mind of their own. In contrast the MAN controls have been bulletproof.

The official LOA of the Portofino 53 is 17.35m including pulpit, platform, etc. (so the "53" is actually a 57). The length of the hull itself is 16.32m. As mcanderson said, our marina in Beaulieu has a zero-tolerance policy on LOA for several years and insists on using the CE certificate measurement not the registration documents (which they know are not reliable). 7yrs ago they let me put the MKI on a 16m berth under the "10% tolerance" principle. When I bought the MKII I had to upgrade to a 19m berth. Its worth checking what your marina's policy is.

Portofino's comment about the impact of props in tunnels on stern lift at low speeds feels quite accurate. At speeds below 20 knots the P53 tends to ride with the bow a little high and needs the trim tabs to level out (not much). Above 20 knots the bow comes down and it runs almost completely flat without using the tabs and stays like this all the way up to 33-34 knots. I've never found this to be a problem even in terrible conditions.

IMHO the reason for the step at the helm is not because of the ride attitude, its because the top of the screen falls right at eye level for most people when they are standing at the wheel. You can choose to sit and look through the screen, but if you stand you need to be a couple of inches higher to be comfortable. Again, I've never found this a problem.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Hi David, thanks very much for this, and for your complementary PM. I'm very reassured by all the positive comments about the MANs, so that's good, but almost 100% certain that a 57' boat is too big.... even if my marina had a suitable berth (I have asked the Q). Balancing the compromise between performance and accommodation and overall boat size and quality and ride and price is a challenge. (in other words, I don't have enough money!)

But at this stage it's all theoretical, my wife needs to call the boat change, not me. If/when she does, at least I'll have done some homework.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

[Deleted, wrong thread]

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I helmed a Portofino 53 last year with those exact same engine for a client of mine. Those engine are IMO the best for the Portofino 53, along with the Volvo D12 - 775hp.
Still I do prefer the grunt of the Man R6's if you ask me. Volvo's are a bit lighter.

WoT should be 33/34 knots, and cruise is at 7.2 liter per nm at 1800 rpm and 25 knots of speed. The boat like to have its tabs close and you do not see a thing to get best efficiency.
If you put the tabs down you lose from one to 1.5 knots, and the boat has a habit of doing light chine walks.

I think the props fitted by Sunseeker are not 10/10 and if one would upgrade to new props I think a knot or two can be given at cruise.
I am saying this because a Cayman 58 I helmed which has a bit more weight to the Sunseeker deliverd better consumption at higher revs according to the engine display. Cayman 58 WA HT 7.6 liters per nm but displacement of about 2.5 tones more.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks, that's useful too. That fuel burn you have quoted is total for both, or per side?

 

[MapisM]

The l/nm numbers from PYB are positively related to total fuel burn, it would be out of this world if that boat would burn 15 l/nm.
They are slightly worse than I expected in my first post, btw.
In fact, slightly worse than in my much heavier boat with the same power V8 engines, but still within reason.
The only thing which is bound to be wrong is the comparison with the Cayman, because 7.6 l/nm is obviously worse than 7.2 l/nm, not better.
Maybe PYB just swapped the numbers, 'dunno.

 

[Den100]

Thanks, that's useful too. That fuel burn you have quoted is total for both, or per side?

I burn 7.4ltrs per nm at 1800 rpm for both.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Phew. My sums (already requiring some creative man maths) would have failed completely if that was per side...

 

[MapisM]

I burn 7.4ltrs per nm at 1800 rpm for both.

At which speed (or how many l/hr, in other words), if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Den100]

At which speed (or how many l/hr, in other words), if you don't mind me asking?

On mine 1800 rpm is 25 knots, with no tide assistance/hindrance

 

[MapisM]

Interesting. So, that means 185 l/h.
My MAN V8/800 powered boat only makes 22 kts at the very same rpm, but burning a whopping 30 litres less, which translates into 7 to 7.1 l/nm.
Very different engines load I suppose, because I see no other reason why the R6/800 should burn more than the V8/800, which are not electronic and have more iron bits to move around...

 

[Chris H]

Some great info for me here chaps, many thanks, I’m viewing Vanusa next week.

 

[pan]

On our SS Manhattan 50 with R800's full load, sea state slight, approx 7.5lt/nm 22kts 1900revs combined, a SS portofino will use less as lighter.

Issues we have had in 4 yrs, couple of electronic sensor faults, one engine oil cooler seal blown (known issue with R800's, both now replaced with upgraded seals!) otherwise they have been excellent, good power band for this model and less weight than equivalent VP's. Annual service approx 3k euros pair, very important to follow the service schedules particularly the 5 yr (expensive) one, check if it has been done recently.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks Pan that's useful Fuel seems pretty consistent

 

[MapisM]

very important to follow the service schedules particularly the 5 yr (expensive) one

Do you possibly remember the most relevant components of it?

 

[pan]

Service book details specifics, however the cooling system (inter-coolers etc) is particularly important, I posted photos on the forum sometime ago showing several areas of blockages. Engineers strip all these down & clean out in workshop, additionally I believe the gaskets oil cooler/block should be changed, not only did we have one fail after the 5 yr service, I have heard of others had same problem.