Making in mast reefing simpler?

Nostrodamus

Nostrodamus

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My Genoa has marks on it to show how much if should be reefed in for each consecutive reef. What I would like to do is to mark the boom at the corresponding points so I know strait away where to set the out haul. To get the balance right is it best to go out and reef the Genoa and then pull in the main until the boat feels balanced or should I put the marks at specific measured points along the boom.

The other point has to do with the outhaul car which in my case is Seldan and runs inside the top of the boom on a car. Should this or the track be lubricated in any way to make it run batter when pulling in or out. Someone suggested a silicon spray as it does not attract dirt so much.

I hope you understand what I mean.

Any other tips for getting the sail in or out easier. I know on occasions it is easier to reef or pull in my main with the wind behind as long as you can control the out haul.

Thanks
 
I've not tried in mast reefing myself, but I notice a few people reckon it works best with a little weight of wind in the sail, ie not quite head on.

Silicone or Teflon spray ? I'd have thought Teflon but doubt there's much in it.

As for marking sail reef positions, I'm very wary of this sort of thing, much preferring to set the boat up to her feel in the particular conditions at the time; a lot depends how used to the boat one is.

Where marks like this do score is if regularly sailing with different crew who won't know her well; those 'calibration' stickers consisting of long thin strips with rows of marks would look the part, not sure where one gets them.
 
Sorry to ba a pain but.......Take it off and install slab reefing..

If an inmast is going to go wrong you just know it will hapen when you need to reef such as a rising wind!!
You set far better sail shape ... and sail faster and closer to the wind..
 
Tomahawk said:
Sorry to ba a pain but.......Take it off and install slab reefing..

If an inmast is going to go wrong you just know it will hapen when you need to reef such as a rising wind!!
You set far better sail shape ... and sail faster and closer to the wind..
Click to expand...

I'm a lover not a racer. I want life simple and easy, especially in bad weather and to be able to reef from the cockpit on my own suits me just fine.
We still get there... sometime. You can always line up the drinks for us when you are in port and waiting.:D:D
 
Nostradamus,

I have to say I feel the same as Tomahawk but was trying to be polite ! :D

Not so much for last Nth racing performance, just a deep belief in Sods' Law and the thought of a halfway jam with in-mast kit makes my toes curl; then we'll see who 'has the easy life' !

Then again with a 22' boat I don't believe in roller headsails either, had several fail on other peoples' boats and it didn't seem all that much fun, + with this size boat the headsails are very easily managed; when I had a masthead rigged 30' cruiser racer I really fancied a good headsail roller but sold the boat instead.

Not that this helps your thread re. marking setting positions; I suppose magic marker on the reefing line works, but will require re-doing quite often, I wonder if a good tightly done whipping at each mark would be an idea, it would be tactile to use in the dark as well...
 
The drinks will be lined up... but we may drink them whilst awaiting you...

but seriously.... I would never have in-mast reefing on a boat...
I am no longer a racer and like you want the simple things in life... I like slab reefing because it is reliable and works .. You can see eveything and you can see if a problem might develop due to bits getting worn.. Just inmagine that very long aliminum tube up your mast.. If it developes a fracture and fails... you have a big problem... If one of the bearings jams you have a problem....

Must leave now.. off to antifoul the boat..
 
I race every boat I come across, but I don't tell anybody, I have in-mast with vertical battons which I like very much I sail solo on my Westerly Corsair and can reef without a problem from the cockpit. what in mast do you have perhaps we could compare when reefing my main I simply let the out hall off a few feet and haul in on the continuous line that operated the winch on the mast then tighten the out haul. My reefing winch at the mast has a ratchet on it to lock the sail to prevent it working its way out when under pressure this need to be locked I have modified mine so that I can lock and release the ratchet from the cockpit. I have had my Seldon inmast mast for 12 years and have done thousands of miles as yet no problems, before that my boat had Bamar retrofit inmast on it when I bought it in 1992 but in 2000 I had a rig failure and lost the lot just off Mousehole in all the years I have never had a single problem with my inmast main. I did on one occasion have a problem with a genoa that got hour glassed to such an extent in a blow that we had to cut it free, but that was possible more lack of experience as much as a fault with the system. I have always found that thebest way of stowing the main, is to let the out haul fly with the main sheet let off and roll the sail in as quickly as possible.
Mike
 
Seajet said:
I've not tried in mast reefing myself,
Click to expand...

Given that, I always wonder why you bother to try and contribute anything to threads on this subject.

Nostrodamus was asking for ideas to get better use out of his system - which logically would come from people who have experience, not from those that don't, nor from people whose only contribution is to suggest he changes it for a different system!
 
Tranona said:
Given that, I always wonder why you bother to try and contribute anything to threads on this subject.
Click to expand...

Quite along with the suggestion to rip it out which just isn't going to happen. Just because some folk don't like in mast reefing it doesn't mean we all have to think that way. It would be interesting to go back 30 or 40 years and hear what was said in the yacht club bars about furling head sails :rolleyes:

We have in mast reefing and whilst unsure when I first viewed the boat I am now converted and would actively seek in mast reefing for any future yacht.

I find that the main does roll away slightly easier with the on our starboard as the roller turns anticlockwise so the sail doesn't drag on the side of the slot, but their isn't that much in it. Nos if its stiff has the mechanism a the top and bottom of the roller been checked?

I keep the slot on top of the boom clean with regular pressure washes. It was very green and slimy the first time it was washed. Not sure I would want anything even silicone grease in there to attract dirt, it could end up like grinding paste.

A couple of marks on the boom would be good. We have a couple of pieces of black electrical tape which the previous owner put on. Now I know if it's blowing the main gets winched out to a bit before one of the marks and then the slack in the sail taken up with the outhaul. You can then easily adjust from the cockpit later on to balance the sails.

Pete
 
Pagetslady said:
I race every boat I come across, but I don't tell anybody, I have in-mast with vertical battons which I like very much I sail solo on my Westerly Corsair and can reef without a problem from the cockpit. what in mast do you have perhaps we could compare when reefing my main I simply let the out hall off a few feet and haul in on the continuous line that operated the winch on the mast then tighten the out haul. My reefing winch at the mast has a ratchet on it to lock the sail to prevent it working its way out when under pressure this need to be locked I have modified mine so that I can lock and release the ratchet from the cockpit. I have had my Seldon inmast mast for 12 years and have done thousands of miles as yet no problems, before that my boat had Bamar retrofit inmast on it when I bought it in 1992 but in 2000 I had a rig failure and lost the lot just off Mousehole in all the years I have never had a single problem with my inmast main. I did on one occasion have a problem with a genoa that got hour glassed to such an extent in a blow that we had to cut it free, but that was possible more lack of experience as much as a fault with the system. I have always found that thebest way of stowing the main, is to let the out haul fly with the main sheet let off and roll the sail in as quickly as possible.
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike, it seems as we have the same Seldan system and I also have the vertical battens which I do like a lot. I did have a problem with the continual line but that was because the splice got bunched causing it to stick going through the jammers. I now have a longer line that is not spliced and it works well. I do have a ratchet on the furling drum at the mast but tend to leave it in the one position. It may be that ou main is quiet big but as I say it is often easier to haul it in with the wind behind and that way the genoa is not flying all over as well. It also saves the out hall trying to give me a good whipping if I am taking it in single handed.
Mike, as a percentage of your boom do you know where the marks are?

Pete 7.. I will try cleaning the track and see if it makes a difference. The silicon spray I am referring to can be sprayed on lines and cloth as well as i does not leave a sticky residue but certainly helps things slide. I think in winter I need to get the ca out ans give it a good clean. The in mast furling system was all checked and fully serviced two years ago.
 
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Tranona said:
Given that, I always wonder why you bother to try and contribute anything to threads on this subject.

Nostrodamus was asking for ideas to get better use out of his system - which logically would come from people who have experience, not from those that don't, nor from people whose only contribution is to suggest he changes it for a different system!
Click to expand...

Tranona,

it's pretty simple, I have a fair bit of sailing experience with a lot of different boats & rigs, an engineering based imagination, and as I said I read a lot !

I passed on what I have read, and what seems pretty instinctive based on any sailing experience.

I also made a few suggestions as to line marking, perhaps you'd explain how they are not relevant or possibly useful, this is meant to be a suggestions forum ?

Then agreed with Tomahawk, in-mast is not the choice of serious sailors or anyone with an imagination for Sod's Law, what's more it looks God-Awful...

I never expected Nostradamus to run off and change his system, but as he suggested in-mast is an easy option I had to agree rather tongue in cheek with Tomahawk that potentially it's quite the opposite, just when the chips are down.

Add to that the lost roach area, hideous looks if using vertical battens, weight aloft even when reefed - unlike slab reefing - and inability to lower the sail if the thing jams, when it will be difficult to access too.

I've never been shot either, but I can comment on certain aspects of the experience reasonably confidently ! :D
 
Seajet said:
Tranona,

it's pretty simple, I have a fair bit of sailing experience with a lot of different boats & rigs, an engineering based imagination, and as I said I read a lot !

I passed on what I have read, and what seems pretty instinctive based on any sailing experience.

I also made a few suggestions as to line marking, perhaps you'd explain how they are not relevant or possibly useful, this is meant to be a suggestions forum ?

Then agreed with Tomahawk, in-mast is not the choice of serious sailors or anyone with an imagination for Sod's Law, what's more it looks God-Awful...

I never expected Nostradamus to run off and change his system, but as he suggested in-mast is an easy option I had to agree rather tongue in cheek with Tomahawk that potentially it's quite the opposite, just when the chips are down.

Add to that the lost roach area, hideous looks if using vertical battens, weight aloft even when reefed - unlike slab reefing - and inability to lower the sail if the thing jams, when it will be difficult to access too.

I've never been shot either, but I can comment on certain aspects of the experience reasonably confidently ! :D
Click to expand...

If you look at the other similar thread, you will find a wealth of advice from people who have had REAL experience of using furling sails.

As you see from 2 long posts here, people who REALLY use them and buy them with their own money are very positive about them. And don't start all that rubbish about "serious" sailors. Sometimes I think you walk around with your eyes closed. Suggest you do the rounds of the new boats at SIBS and look at the "serious" passage making boats and you will see a significant number have furling sails. Look at the entries for the ARC for further confirmation.

Lots of "serious" sailors spending "serious" money and buying what they consider the most appropriate kit for their purposes. There is almost always the choice, but many choose furling sails. Are they all wrong? Nostrodamus is typical. He has a (very) serious boat and has sailed a long way in it. Is he not a "serious" sailor?

BTW lots of people with furling mains mark their booms if they find it useful. Nothing clever about it. As soon as you use it you get the feel for how much you want to reef. You just have to free your mind of the notion of fixed reef points - I know it is difficult if you have been conditioned to cope with the constraints of slab reefing. However, before that came back into fashion roller reefing was popular. Why? because it allowed easy reefing without the constraints of fixed reef points, although of course it did have its own drawbacks. So, whatever system you use, you adjust to its characteristics, not get hung up about relating it to another system.
 
Tranona,

for a start I have plenty of experience using roller reefing headsails, I think you'll find the principle similar to mainsails except the latter leave the user even more badly placed if and when they fail.

It doesn't take a genius to work out the drawbacks with in-mast furling, and the advantages of slab reefing; if it's lost on you I'm not bothering to repeat myself, have another read.

As for boats at shows, lots of people stupidly try to take the easy way out in all sorts of things in life, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Nostradamus asked about marking lines, I contributed a few ideas.

Later on there was what I felt a rather tongue in cheek ribbing about our relative systems which seemed to go fine until your size 12's descended; It's a shame you are so sensitive about the system you use that you feel it necessary to spray insults about...

I wasn't aware I required your permission to try to be helpful; Oh hang on, I don't...:rolleyes:
 
Dare i bring in in-boom reefing with horizontal battens?
I have this set up from Elvstrom on my Sunshine 38.
The previous owner fitted it for ease of sail handling without too much performance compromise. (His words).
Fortunately i also have the original boom with slab reefing which though sailing short handed i much prefer.
Anyone interested in the in boom?
 
Noahsdad said:
Dare i bring in in-boom reefing with horizontal battens?
I have this set up from Elvstrom on my Sunshine 38.
The previous owner fitted it for ease of sail handling without too much performance compromise. (His words).
Fortunately i also have the original boom with slab reefing which though sailing short handed i much prefer.
Anyone interested in the in boom?
Click to expand...

Noahsdad,

do you mean 'interested' as in fancy buying it, or as in daring to discuss it ? :)
 
Nostro

I have been using in mast reefing for the last 6 years. Prefer it to slab reefing, and roller boom both of which I have had on previous boats.

More specifically in answer to your questions, I have seen a dramatic reduction in friction by ensuring the roller bearings top and bottom are greased and by using silicon spray on the boom (- after cleaning it as per previous posts).

For me one of the key attractions of roller reefing is the safety of reefing from the cockpit. Another is the incremental capability of roller reefing. With it, you have the ability quickly and easily to fine tune to the conditions. I tend to reef little and often as it is so easy, so I haven't any marks to indicate a first , second or third reefing position.

Then there is the convenience of being able to wind in the main in seconds on the way into port......

What would I do if the roller reefing jammed for any reason......and I couldn't either free it or drop it?

Slacken off the outhaul, take the spare main halyard and wrap it round the mast a few times effectively lashing it to the mast. Not a perfect solution I grant you but it will do.

Maybe all the doom merchants, who seem to think that roller bearings are so unreliable with in mast furling, would care to tell us what they would do if the main jammed in the mast track and the couldn't reef using their preferred system?
 
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