Gary Fox
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Making fast in a marina
- Thread starter franksingleton
- Start date
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I am not blessed with YM practical . But what I do have are the same 4 mooring lines for 17 years & I have only anchored 6 times in those years so the rest have been in marinas, . Apart from the last covid years I have averaged 1500-2000 miles PA, so I have been in a few different berths. That suggests that somehow my mooring technique seems to work OK. But I agree that lines should not be left ashore. Mine are hardly long enough anyway, I see no point in having lines that are excessively long.
I often see crews struggling to threadle huge tangles of line through loops whilst the boat drifts aimlessly away from them. Another one is trying to make one line do 2 jobs !! Normally ending in a version of "cat's cradle".
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Poignard
Well-Known Member
Stops the loop moving about and chafing, I suppose.
prv
Well-Known Member
As with parallel parking of cars, sometimes the way they moored made perfect sense given the boats there at the time, which have since left.
Of course, sometimes it’s just lack of thought.
Pete
prv
Well-Known Member
Exactly ?
If I’m the only one likely to use a cleat, I drop the bowline round the whole thing. If sharing, I dive underneath the inevitable bird’s nests on top and put it round one leg with the knot well clear. Then it’s neither inconveniencing anyone else nor subject to being trapped.
Pete
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Yes. I did some each way, just to see, and the eyes that were just looped over the cleats chafed many times (>10) faster. Obviously, this depends on how smooth the cleats are and how much motion there is in your slip. Many never observe this and thus think it is a silly practice.
I do loop some of the lines over, but they must have chafe covers or they don't last (the covers only last a few seasons).
Gary Fox
N/A
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Anchored 6 times in 17 years. That’s very sad. You are missing the vast majority of the nicest places to visit.
Perhaps you need to read a few threads on anchor technique rather than mooring cleats
PS. Unless using some miracle material I have not come across, mooring ropes will have deteriorated in 17 years due to UV and stretch cycles. Plus if berthing all year round, I would prefer more than 4 ropes on so key ropes are doubled (we had a new 14mm rope cut through in a F11 storm by chafe on a defect in the pontoon, opened by the storm). We have 10 ropes in total in winter.
DipperToo
Well-Known Member
Agreed - some marinas are very open to surge and swell from certain directions. If you do not live locally and there is any possibility of swell/surge, additional 'safety' lines are not a bad ideas. I think your neighbours would also be happy to see that you have made sure their boat will bot be damaged by yours having insufficient lines for the conditions.
I have personally seen people seasick in a particularly bad storm in our marina as the rolling and pitching was so bad.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
When I moor alongside long pontoon, then I think its best to run lines ashore and oxo on cleat. This is not often as usually anchored or tied up against wall
The long pontoons always seem crowded and it is often needed for folk to move boats along or otherwise sort out crossed lines. Having the ends ashore makes it all much easier without going onto another's boat. Obviously ends should be coiled neatly.
Tieing up on walls with tidal ranges with 5 to 14m tidal drops needs other techniques and sometimes springs more than twice as long as boat so no chance of running them back to boat
On dedicated finger pontoon then no one will be using my cleat so either way will do, though that probably represents less than 15 weeks in 30 years of sailing. Neatly coiled again if ends ashore so my neighbour does not trip
The long pontoons always seem crowded and it is often needed for folk to move boats along or otherwise sort out crossed lines. Having the ends ashore makes it all much easier without going onto another's boat. Obviously ends should be coiled neatly.
Tieing up on walls with tidal ranges with 5 to 14m tidal drops needs other techniques and sometimes springs more than twice as long as boat so no chance of running them back to boat
On dedicated finger pontoon then no one will be using my cleat so either way will do, though that probably represents less than 15 weeks in 30 years of sailing. Neatly coiled again if ends ashore so my neighbour does not trip
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Anchored 6 times in 17 years. That’s very sad. You are missing the vast majority of the nicest places to visit
I very much doubt it- Sailing round the Thames estuary, once one has been up one muddy creek one has been up them all & I certainly do not want the hassle of pumping up dinghies to get ashore. Imagine mooring in the Medway with a view of a disused power staion, a bridge to nowhere, a broken jetty, a fuel terminal & an agregate berth, If one climbed the mast to see over the sea wall one would see what one would see at many places around the Thames- Miles of boring marshes & little else. What is there that one cannot see from a decent marina? In scotland one craggy hillock is the same as the next. I ought to know I went to school there as a child. The Channel Islands are best seen from the main ports with plenty of activity. A typical questionone might ask of my pre covid sailing area might be-Why anchor off Cameret/ Lezadrieux/ Treguier/l'aber wrac'h etc when one can go in to a marina & step ashore at any time in comfort?
Perhaps you need to read a few threads on anchor technique rather than mooring cleats
Not really - I would rather have a cure for sea sickness that totally prevents me from anchoring unless in the smoothest of water.
I also sail single handed & feel that having to depart from a rocky cove at night when the wind changes can be dangerous. I do not have- nor need- an anchor winch
I have no desire to anchor whatsoever.
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
I don't know if the "problem" is any worse now than it was years ago, I just think these sorts of things have a tendency to drift out of the mind so that every season brings fresh angst...
We have just had new pontoons at our marina so are lucky enough to have a cleat for each boat. I know with our 12+ ton, 44ft ketch, we double up each line made fast on board, at the pontoon, and then on board again - the lines are lead around opposite horns to reduce chafe.
We do get some movement at our berth, so the extra security is worth it. TBH, I'm always going to protect my boat before worrying about courtesy, I think it's more courteous to avoid drifting into anyone else.... but will try to make space on a cleat if it is shared.
We have just had new pontoons at our marina so are lucky enough to have a cleat for each boat. I know with our 12+ ton, 44ft ketch, we double up each line made fast on board, at the pontoon, and then on board again - the lines are lead around opposite horns to reduce chafe.
We do get some movement at our berth, so the extra security is worth it. TBH, I'm always going to protect my boat before worrying about courtesy, I think it's more courteous to avoid drifting into anyone else.... but will try to make space on a cleat if it is shared.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
The OP is lucky with his electric cable users. I'm more used to people unplugging my cable connected to our topped-up metered supply and connecting their own cable.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
100% agree.
Doubled back lines are fine for short good weather stops - but not for long term.
The trouble with the passing under and over cleat is that unlike ships bollards - this does not always mean either line can be released without releasing the other. For non ship people - I'll leave you to google how that's done ?
I have a solution for those that really clog the cleat .... a wire loop that I can pass through and lock ... giving me the wire to make fast to by shackle ....
If the offender is within earshot - I politely offer to redo his line in seamanlike manner ... 50-50 as to whether they object ... but worth a try. Just make sure you do a proper job !!
RJJ
Well-Known Member
Big difference, IMHO, between what you do in your "home" berth, vs what you do when visiting.
Our home berth is a mid-river pontoon. It's a bit exposed to wind, waves, wash and tide. And we have to plan for whatever weather may come when we're not there. But nobody ever visits. So all our lines start on board, go to the pontoon, OXXO, return to yacht, OXXO again making a doubled-up line, bags of security. 2 sets of lines, the shorter set having "dog bone" compensators and 4 sets of springs. Yeah, it's a pain to set off, but we sleep well at night both on and away from the boat.
VIsiting somewhere crowded like Yarmouth IOW - well, it's seldom more than overnight, we're always in attendance and aware of any severe conditions, so we just go for single lines with bowline or RTTHH ashore, as advised, to be considerate. Seems obvious.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Yarmouth IoW ...... a few years ago ... was bad weather going through. HM had a terrible couple of nights as peoples boats were going walkabout in the harbour ...
We were alongside the main outer berths and if it wasn't for our Avon - would never have been able to get to / from the boat. One night while on board - it was like a shotgun shot going off .... one of our lines had parted ... my lines are serious braid jobs ... 14mm and spliced / set specifically for the boat in length and use ... that line was made fast to shore cleat and parted about 1/3rd from end ...
Luckily - I'm a cautious person and had made sure to have more than usual lines out ...
We were alongside the main outer berths and if it wasn't for our Avon - would never have been able to get to / from the boat. One night while on board - it was like a shotgun shot going off .... one of our lines had parted ... my lines are serious braid jobs ... 14mm and spliced / set specifically for the boat in length and use ... that line was made fast to shore cleat and parted about 1/3rd from end ...
Luckily - I'm a cautious person and had made sure to have more than usual lines out ...
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
I like your style.
I however worry more about cleats tearing off the boat or shearing. Saw this twice in Ilfracombe due to surge but have never seen a warp snapped except the light one on our wanderlust dinghy, though this time it pretended to be submarine instead. On our Tamar mooring I tie the two bow ropes together so still held on by pulpit if cleat detaches.
The outer/ midharbour pontoon at Dale ripples in strong southerlies so different sections may be nearly a metre above other points. Seasick beckons for some and troubled sleep for all. In such weather it pays to moor on the lee side unless you love the sound of rubbing and possibly displaced fenders. 4 sets of springs there not my more usual 3 springs plus bow stern & mid)
DipperToo
Well-Known Member
Slight thread drift,, but there is a gadget to alert you via SMS if someone unplugs you, or there is a power cut. I bought a monitor from EnviroTxt and a PAYG SIM from EE. So long as an SMS message is sent once every 3 months the SIM number is kept active. It has been very useful on quite a few occasions. Just don't place it neat a heater outlet as you will get messages about a rapid temperature rise!
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I can think of very few places we have stayed where significant boat movement occurred even in bad weather, the exceptions generally being moorings. The point about Frank's original remark is that leaving a 'bird's nest' on the cleat adds nothing to the boat's security and that both the jumble and the frequent mess on the pontoon represents both a level of incompetence and lack of respect for other sailors that may to some extent be more common in recent years. I'm not sure that there is much one can do other than spread the word and encourage sailing schools and others to teach traditional sailing manners.
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
If you do the former and someone else wants to also use the cleat they will have to tie on over your line, meaning you will have to disturb their line if you want to leave before they do. If you do the latter then it is possible for someone else to use the cleat without disturbing your line and for you to cast off without disturbing theirs.