Making a new rudder...how hard can it be?

[Iain C]

Bad plan. Poor leading edge shape and almost bound to allow water into the core.

My fireball rudder (and my homemade carbon cherub one) were held down with a 1:2 (not 2:1) in a flyaway rudder cleat. They were engineered so there was zero play when down, but quite floppy in the stocks as soon as they were released. They were buoyant enough to just pop up when the cleat was released. The flyaway cleat auto releases if you hit something in the water, or the bottom.

If you want to make a wear edge just rout out the contact area and fill with very stiff epoxy/colloidal silica and profile it. But TBH, learn to sail rudderless...there's not really much of an excuse for clouting the rudder on approach to the slipway. Or if you can't steer rudderless, just try drifting...for example, onshore wind, round up onto a fetch with little speed and power, pull the board and the rudder, grab jib and mainsheet, and let the boat go in sideways. Pull the jib to bear away, main to head up.

If your rudder construction is truly budget, you can use a piece of knitting needle as a lock to keep the rudder down. If you hit anything, the needle will snap.

Golden rule...make sure the rudder is exactly vertical or even a degree or two forward, otherwise it will be horribly heavy, and also loaded/stressed.

 

[Lakesailor]

Don't sheath it. Just give a sealing coat of thin epoxy, then varnish (or paint) to avoid UV fade. As the rudder is only going to be be on the boat when sailing even that isn't really necessary as long as you store it out of the sun.

I don't know what someone local to you would charge for the wood. I think I paid about £12, although 32mm is probably thicker than I used. You could always make a ply spacer to the head (out of sight) to make it a snug fit in the headstock if you can't get wood of the right thickness.

Keel band would work, although screwholes into the edge of the rudder aren't something I'd be too happy with. How about epoxying it on? If it tears off you can always put another on.

 

[Greenheart]

Thank Iain, Lakey, that all sounds smart. The knitting needle is a bit of bright low-cost thinking. And using something other than a 32mm section of wood to ensure a firm seating in the stock, ought to have been obvious to me...the previous owner bulked-out the centreboard around the bolt, using truly forgettable old CDs. Works invisibly and benefits music!

I'd love to know how a flyaway cleat works. My cheapo-cam cleats are functional, but won't be right if I misjudge arrival at the beach, or indeed if I hit a floating object. In any case I wanted a decent rudder-lift system because it's convenient to have the blade lifting to at least 90° to prevent it hitting the slipway when the boat's on the trolley. I'll be launching & landing singlehanded, and in a brisk onshore breeze it's not convenient if I have to stand in four feet of water connecting/unhooking the rudder before sailing/hauling out.

If I'm feeling bold later, I'll photograph the complicated lifting/lowering tackles I've fitted. Lots of line and tiny blocks. Works in practice though - and without it, there was no access from the cockpit to the rudder...I cracked the rear deck, reaching down over it before I fitted the lifter. I wonder if the previous owner launched from a deep-water dock?

I get the message about avoiding screw-holes for the keelband...I bet epoxy would serve. I'm tempted by a scratch-resistant leading edge because even though I like the idea of mastering steering using sail-balance alone, any practicing of theory in the tight space available at our launch area will cause terrible collateral damage and profound unpopularity!

 

[snowleopard]

I've still given the rudder's leading edge a battering on arrival at the beach. So I'm thinking I'll take a few inches of keel-band (required anyway, elsewhere on board ) to defend it. Good plan?

No. Impossible to do without introducing a lot of drag. Just apply a couple of layers of Kevlar tape with epoxy and it'll be literally bulletproof.

http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ecfsnet%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2f&WD=kevlar&PN=CFS_Catalogue__Kevlar_Tape_380%2ehtml%23aFKT200_2d050#aFKT200_2d050

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for that...nice cheap solution. I can think of about 20 places on board where Kevlar tape might be useful...

 

[Stork_III]

I'd love to know how a flyaway cleat works. My cheapo-cam cleats are functional, but won't be right if I misjudge arrival at the beach, or indeed if I hit a floating object. In any case I wanted a decent rudder-lift system because it's convenient to have the blade lifting to at least 90° to prevent it hitting the slipway when the boat's on the trolley. I'll be launching & landing singlehanded, and in a brisk onshore breeze it's not convenient if I have to stand in four feet of water connecting/unhooking the rudder before sailing/hauling out.

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

 

[Greenheart]

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

Thanks for that - clever. Although I slightly wonder if my 3:1 tackle would backfire, there...mightn't activate the release-system until the damage is done!

 

[DJE]

Just noticed on another thread that you are talking about making the blade from a single board. Won't this be prone to warping? I thought the idea of strip laminating was to reverse the grain on alternate strips to avoid warping.

 

[Lakesailor]

I've done 3 now from Iroko plank. Not a smidgen of warping.

 

[Greenheart]

I assume it's important to give the finished blade some pretty serious resinous coating to inhibit water-ingress into the grain?

Or I could do it alongside the centreboard as a job-lot, and make the rudder from 12mm steel plate...

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

Took delivery of one of these flyaway cleats the other day. Fits neatly on the tiller and I've scrapped the 4:1 purchase I'd arranged to keep the blade down, because it wouldn't have triggered the flyaway until the rudder was already getting a battering.

Only problem now is the incredibly arduous business of pulling the blade down as I start to sail...it requires a 30kg+ pull on a 6mm line to bring the blade to vertical. Not sure why it's so stiff - the blade isn't tight on its pivot. Just drag I s'pose, plus a tackle with no advantage. It'd be easier to set it fully down from the start, but I don't launch from a dock and the rear deck doesn't allow access to the rudder once I'm in the cockpit. The 4:1 system was powerful but wouldn't work well with the new cleat.

 

[DJE]

I've done 3 now from Iroko plank. Not a smidgen of warping.

Fair enough.

 

[mjcoon]

Only problem now is the incredibly arduous business of pulling the blade down as I start to sail...it requires a 30kg+ pull on a 6mm line to bring the blade to vertical. Not sure why it's so stiff - the blade isn't tight on its pivot. ...

Is it not mostly because the rudder floats? (So you have to pull hard to submerge it!) Trouble is, any counteracting device (extra weight; powerful shockcord) is going to be a pain when there isn't any water there...

Mike.

 

[DJE]

Only problem now is the incredibly arduous business of pulling the blade down as I start to sail...it requires a 30kg+ pull on a 6mm line to bring the blade to vertical. Not sure why it's so stiff - the blade isn't tight on its pivot. Just drag I s'pose, plus a tackle with no advantage. It'd be easier to set it fully down from the start, but I don't launch from a dock and the rear deck doesn't allow access to the rudder once I'm in the cockpit. The 4:1 system was powerful but wouldn't work well with the new cleat.

The trouble is that everything is working against you. Friction, drag on the blade, and bouyancy and the tackle is attached a fairly small distance from the blade pivot. On our Wayfarer the easiest method was to stop the boat, sails flapping, lean over the transom and push the blade down by hand then tighten up the holding-down line.

 

[lw395]

I assume it's important to give the finished blade some pretty serious resinous coating to inhibit water-ingress into the grain?

Or I could do it alongside the centreboard as a job-lot, and make the rudder from 12mm steel plate...



Took delivery of one of these flyaway cleats the other day. Fits neatly on the tiller and I've scrapped the 4:1 purchase I'd arranged to keep the blade down, because it wouldn't have triggered the flyaway until the rudder was already getting a battering.

Only problem now is the incredibly arduous business of pulling the blade down as I start to sail...it requires a 30kg+ pull on a 6mm line to bring the blade to vertical. Not sure why it's so stiff - the blade isn't tight on its pivot. Just drag I s'pose, plus a tackle with no advantage. It'd be easier to set it fully down from the start, but I don't launch from a dock and the rear deck doesn't allow access to the rudder once I'm in the cockpit. The 4:1 system was powerful but wouldn't work well with the new cleat.

I use one of those clamcleats with a 2:1 downhaul on both my dinghies.
On one of them, I have spent time sanding the head of the rudder after coating it in epoxy, to make it a good fit in the stock. It is now firm but moves easily enough with the 2:1, but stays put under its own weight.
The other dinghy has a Winder rudder that simply works as a lifting rudder should.

 

[Greenheart]

Is it not mostly because the rudder floats? (So you have to pull hard to submerge it!) Trouble is, any counteracting device (extra weight; powerful shockcord) is going to be a pain when there isn't any water there...

I'm sure flotation is a factor, though the blade feels almost as heavy as its volume in water would weigh. Getting the blade back above 90º for beaching, hauling out and launching, isn't a problem - the Heath-Robinson lifting tackle I've arranged (using an 18" iroko bar for leverage, shoved neatly into the end of the hollow tiller with an assortment of purchases led forward to a clam-cleat) is no effort or trouble. As long as I remember to release the downhaul first and keep the line free of its cleat.

...the tackle is attached a fairly small distance from the blade pivot...

That's the point exactly. There's very little leverage I can apply - it's like trying to row holding the oar six inches from the rowlock.

There's a hole in the front of the rudder-blade above the waterline, and a cord is stopper-knotted into it. The cord then runs up around the rounded head of the blade to a block, then forward to the flyaway cleat on the tiller. Awful lot of pull is required to lower it once the boat is moving.

I could make a double-ended line for the rudder-downhaul - one end going 1:1 to the flyaway block, the other feeding a 3:1 for hauling down, which is then left slack during sailing...

Actually I've an even more complicated ropey solution in mind, which I'll have to rig up and photograph, before I waste you gents' time trying to explain it.

The other dinghy has a Winder rudder that simply works as a lifting rudder should.

That sounds like a solution which will cost more than my whole boat did...

I've done 3 now from Iroko plank. Not a smidgen of warping.

That sounds to me like the smart way to go, cheers.