Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
I've done that. Fireball. Toestrap fitting pulled out. Crew was very surprised as I surfed along behind the boat, holding onto the mainsheet.
Making a ballasted centreboard...any views on carbon fibre and molten lead?
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
I've done that. Fireball. Toestrap fitting pulled out. Crew was very surprised as I surfed along behind the boat, holding onto the mainsheet.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
My first sailing was off Gravesend in '50(?) at the age of three in the prototype Fleetwind. I was allowed out alone from 6 yrs, but I managed to avoid capsizing it until I was 17 odd. Then did it three times in 10 minutes off Falmouth town quay (too much sail up and moorings to dodge). First two times I did it dry, just rolled over the side and stood on the (wooden) dagger board. Point was, the side decks were wide enough that no water was shipped, so as it righted, I just came back over the side and grabbed everthing and carried on. Third time was less successful, as I had neglected to put a stopper knot on the main sheet and it ran out. Plus, I fell on the rudder head and bust it.. So ran to Flushing with one foot on the rudder blade and the jib for drive.
My current boat (two building in the shed) is a trad double ender. No side decks, but enough floatation to not sink. Capsize is a worry as I doubt I can bail it in a chop. But, one crew makes it much more stable and I carry 40kg ballast if alone (usually) Couple of scares in 6 yrs, but not gone over yet. It's replacement can go over to 100 deg or more without taking on water that won't drain off.
My current boat (two building in the shed) is a trad double ender. No side decks, but enough floatation to not sink. Capsize is a worry as I doubt I can bail it in a chop. But, one crew makes it much more stable and I carry 40kg ballast if alone (usually) Couple of scares in 6 yrs, but not gone over yet. It's replacement can go over to 100 deg or more without taking on water that won't drain off.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm...although, if it's windy enough to 'surf', I can't see the Osprey staying upright and carrying on cheerfully like the Marie Celeste.
I believe that. I saw a forty-litre (400N) masthead float, purpose-designed for dinghies, for sale. But I'm not sure my "pop-bottles" are as insignificant as that name suggests...they give almost as much flotation as two buoyancy-aids, and it'd be no effort to increase their number and effect.
Similarly, if the boat does partially invert, surely the effect of four (or more) 2-litre bottles at the submerged masthead will apply considerable upward pressure...imagine trying to lift a mast from its foot on land, with an eight-kilo weight tied to the masthead!
That's seamanship! Great story. Did you wear a lifejacket back then?
What form does the 40kg take? I'm very interested.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I misspent some of youth doing greensand casting of windmills, and greensand moulds are quite definitely damp when the metal goes in.
Seajet
...
Dan,
I know this is all just winter fireside chat but you're worrying about nothing.
Like Twister Ken I've been towed along, when a Fireball recovered it set off with the crew and I was just able to grab a halliard which had streamed through a self bailer ( tough day ) - my drag caused the boat to round up & stop which I was quite pleased about.
Had a similar time with a Scorpion, we dipped to windward and I was dragged out from the toestraps, as I'd been holding the tiller extension I pulled it to windward as I went out, making the boat veer off to leeward; I surfaced in time to see the look on the crews' face which I'll never forget as he looked around to ask ' where the F are you going ? ' to see a waggling tiller - he had the prescence of mind to deliberately capsize the boat just before it rammed a moored yacht.
A capsized Osprey with just your pop bottles at the masthead won't go far over, she's not a broad boat & think of the leverage on that mast; the snags start if strong wind & waves drive the mast into mud, then it's fun & games.
Even a lead centreplate will have nothing like the righting moment of a masthead float, but dinghies are meant to capsize, one practice beside the slip will put your and more importantly SWMBO's mind at rest.
The Osprey is remarkably stable, I can't think of any performance / Gentlemans' boat which compares.
I know this is all just winter fireside chat but you're worrying about nothing.
Like Twister Ken I've been towed along, when a Fireball recovered it set off with the crew and I was just able to grab a halliard which had streamed through a self bailer ( tough day ) - my drag caused the boat to round up & stop which I was quite pleased about.
Had a similar time with a Scorpion, we dipped to windward and I was dragged out from the toestraps, as I'd been holding the tiller extension I pulled it to windward as I went out, making the boat veer off to leeward; I surfaced in time to see the look on the crews' face which I'll never forget as he looked around to ask ' where the F are you going ? ' to see a waggling tiller - he had the prescence of mind to deliberately capsize the boat just before it rammed a moored yacht.
A capsized Osprey with just your pop bottles at the masthead won't go far over, she's not a broad boat & think of the leverage on that mast; the snags start if strong wind & waves drive the mast into mud, then it's fun & games.
Even a lead centreplate will have nothing like the righting moment of a masthead float, but dinghies are meant to capsize, one practice beside the slip will put your and more importantly SWMBO's mind at rest.
The Osprey is remarkably stable, I can't think of any performance / Gentlemans' boat which compares.
Last edited:
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Cheers Andy. As you say, fireside chat. If I was in any doubt about the boat I've chosen, I'd be looking hard at something else, but that hasn't ever crossed my mind. :encouragement:
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Hmm...
.
That's seamanship! Great story. Did you wear a lifejacket back then?
What form does the 40kg take? I'm very interested.
Bouancy aid, quite handy if falling on something...
Lead is cast into wedgies that go either side of the c/board case. It increases the inertia of the boat and saves me from being too agile. The two times I shipped water in my current boat were both having to do something quickly to avoid another boat.
Point being: In a lifetime of sailing small boats, I have managed to avoid capsizing most of the time. So I don't plan on putting pop bottles on my mast head.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I respect the fact that you're more skilled and more bold than I, sir, especially if you were singlehanding a Fleetwind, aged six.
Seajet
...
I think you'll find ballast is placed centrally specifically to avoid inertia, pitching, but this is a dinghy not a trad' dayboat or yacht.
The aircraft design saying ' added lightness ' applies to dinghies too, not least for getting them up the slipway.
Since about 1940 we have had bouyancy bags & tanks in performance boats capable of capsize & recovery - one of the great joys of dinghy sailing is being able to push the limits and feeling like it's Warp 9 knowing the worst that can happen is getting wet; compare that to pushing it on a motor bike or car...
I crewed on a Falmouth Working Boat, heavily canvassed 25 footers which raced full spiritedly to the point of sinking then getting their diver chums to recover the boats - great boats and people but I'd prefer buoyancy tanks and carrying on !
The aircraft design saying ' added lightness ' applies to dinghies too, not least for getting them up the slipway.
Since about 1940 we have had bouyancy bags & tanks in performance boats capable of capsize & recovery - one of the great joys of dinghy sailing is being able to push the limits and feeling like it's Warp 9 knowing the worst that can happen is getting wet; compare that to pushing it on a motor bike or car...
I crewed on a Falmouth Working Boat, heavily canvassed 25 footers which raced full spiritedly to the point of sinking then getting their diver chums to recover the boats - great boats and people but I'd prefer buoyancy tanks and carrying on !
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I wondered about that. I was hoping to hear that DownWest used a bit of flamboyant DIY ingeniousness - water ballast tanks on a sliding seat, something like that.
Jeez, it really is midwinter when my paper-projects start to include water ballast.
Lordy...I was just thinking that Flambuoyant might be a good name for a bright green boat with lemonade bottles at the masthead...
...but on Googling it, I find the mis-spelling has already been coined by crews of a "Hello, sailor" orientation.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Sounds very...challenging. I'd pay to see footage of that foiling tri in a breeze!
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Pointless.
We encouraged Dan to do things in the right order at the beginning of the season.
He obviously took no notice and has now started the off-season with a whole load of bonkers ideas for us to poo-poo.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Poo-poo, ho hum. I apologise, I'm too forthcoming about why I'd like to know. I always learn lots here, when I'm reading about other people's boats, because their descriptions aren't tailored to what they assume will suit me aboard mine. We started this thread talking theoretically about carbon fibre and lead; it was interesting and useful, thanks.
There's a "sportsboat" I've seen - unusual, very new-looking thing, probably over 18ft long, 6ft wide. I can't remember the name. The chap I spoke to about it, didn't seem as proud of it as it seemed to deserve, because the design looked brilliant to me - quicker than conventional keelboats, but retaining just a touch of deep ballast as assistance in extremis.
Not a bad idea, I thought.
There's a "sportsboat" I've seen - unusual, very new-looking thing, probably over 18ft long, 6ft wide. I can't remember the name. The chap I spoke to about it, didn't seem as proud of it as it seemed to deserve, because the design looked brilliant to me - quicker than conventional keelboats, but retaining just a touch of deep ballast as assistance in extremis.
Not a bad idea, I thought.
Last edited:
Seajet
...
Dan,
well I enjoy these fireside discussions, and as for bonkers ideas I heard a great quote on Futurama the other day,
" I came to this career late after a misspent youth sending dark matter around the Hadron collider, in a futile attempt to refine a better harpsichord wax ".
( another theory about the collider is that they'll all get bored and just use it to send maltesers to each other )
Boat names are a bit of a minefield, I remember in the 70's a sailing magazine built a small cruiser then had a competetion to win it; they wondered why they were getting sniggers then found that the name they'd given it meant a ladies' product in France...
DownWest,
I'd love to see a pic of your Fathers' foiler, was it anything like this ?
View attachment 37634
well I enjoy these fireside discussions, and as for bonkers ideas I heard a great quote on Futurama the other day,
" I came to this career late after a misspent youth sending dark matter around the Hadron collider, in a futile attempt to refine a better harpsichord wax ".
( another theory about the collider is that they'll all get bored and just use it to send maltesers to each other )
Boat names are a bit of a minefield, I remember in the 70's a sailing magazine built a small cruiser then had a competetion to win it; they wondered why they were getting sniggers then found that the name they'd given it meant a ladies' product in France...
DownWest,
I'd love to see a pic of your Fathers' foiler, was it anything like this ?
View attachment 37634
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, misnomers. Not long before R-R anounced the Silver Mist, someone pointed out that the Germans might have an image problem, so it rapidly became the Shadow.
Sorry SJ, no pic. When my father died in '90, I sorted through the designs and pics to save things. Mother was also having health issues and decided to move south. Somehow the box didn't make the move and us children didn't realise this until much later. Not much like your pic, think a glider wing pivoting on a tube with a short horizontal gaff carring the head of the mainsail (it sailed pretty well on the mast alone) Mast would have been around 3ft cord at the base. Hulls were triangular section pin jointed to the cross beam, so it broke down for trailing. All built in plywood with the mast covered in doped fabric. Leading edge in birch ply. This would have been in '53 or 4.
Andrew
Sorry SJ, no pic. When my father died in '90, I sorted through the designs and pics to save things. Mother was also having health issues and decided to move south. Somehow the box didn't make the move and us children didn't realise this until much later. Not much like your pic, think a glider wing pivoting on a tube with a short horizontal gaff carring the head of the mainsail (it sailed pretty well on the mast alone) Mast would have been around 3ft cord at the base. Hulls were triangular section pin jointed to the cross beam, so it broke down for trailing. All built in plywood with the mast covered in doped fabric. Leading edge in birch ply. This would have been in '53 or 4.
Andrew
Seajet
...
Andrew,
thanks I get the general idea; there were a few concepts like that around, probably a bit later ! I remember seeing the Planesail wing mast project but don't have any pics; combining a wing mast and hydrofoils was a brave move of your Fathers' but makes sense for an aero designer - bet he's smiling at the Foiler Moths now.
Andy
thanks I get the general idea; there were a few concepts like that around, probably a bit later ! I remember seeing the Planesail wing mast project but don't have any pics; combining a wing mast and hydrofoils was a brave move of your Fathers' but makes sense for an aero designer - bet he's smiling at the Foiler Moths now.
Andy
Last edited:
lw395
Well-Known Member
I think a couple of those were on ebay a while back? Some discussion on the y&y forum.
Seajet
...
There was a question on here from a buyer of a couple of derilict Foiler 21's who knew nothing about them so I scanned and published the brochure I happened to pick up as a teenager - not that I got any thanks for it !
Iain C
Well-Known Member
Oh no here we go again!
Dan £40 won't even buy the epoxy you need to make such a foil, let alone the CF weave and unidirectionals! Just go out and sail and do some drills...the simple act of letting the kicker off is more likely to assist in getting the thing upright compared to the centre-keel (which incidentally would snap right off it was as thin as you propose!)
Dan £40 won't even buy the epoxy you need to make such a foil, let alone the CF weave and unidirectionals! Just go out and sail and do some drills...the simple act of letting the kicker off is more likely to assist in getting the thing upright compared to the centre-keel (which incidentally would snap right off it was as thin as you propose!)