Main sheet traveler system...

[onesea]

I have a main sheet traveler system that works great but...


When the wind cranks up it becomes hard work to tweak. It works on a 4 to 1 purchase I think it needs to be 5 30m2 of main.

The other issue is cleating it, the traveler is recessed a bit in the cockpit and there is a block to lead it up to the helm / trimmer.

I would rather this came straight from the traveler car, so that there is less friction. Any suggestions welcome...

 

[johnphilip]

Our system

With a mainsail of about 30 or 32 M2 sheeted at the bridgedeck we need a 6 part sheet as the first 6:1 picture on the linked page
http://www.apsltd.com/c-643-mainsheetsystems.aspx
One mod from the Harken system the boat came with, I changed the cam type jammer for a Spinlock one. Thegreat advantage of the Spinlock is that it is easy to release in a hurry when hit by a squall. Unlike the cam cleats with jaws it takes no effort to release the sheet, you just flick it down.
In addition the sheet is a 10 or 11 mm Dyneema which runs easily through the blocks so letting out the sail in light airs is a little easier.
https://www.spinlock.co.uk/en/cleats/pxr-cam-cleats

 

[onesea]

My bad explanation, the Main sheet is fine its the traveler control lines that are the issue...

The Yellow ropes in the picture. The problem I cannot find a solution for is when the main is powered and the track is to windward, the pull is vertical.

When the track is to leeward the pull is near horizontal. The last owner removed this problem by placing a cam cleat and turning block on the cockpit coming but this is quite inefficient.

SWMBO has just seen my bank statement with the replacements, clutches (4 x triples ), and I am not certain she has realized it was only the deposit we put down on the new sail , I am looking for a cost effective solution...

 

[Daydream believer]

SWMBO has just seen my bank statement with the replacements, clutches (4 x triples ), and I am not certain she has realized it was only the deposit we put down on the new sail , I am looking for a cost effective solution...

Sounds to me you ought to dump the SWMBO!!

Failing that it seems to me that the car is the problem. Too much friction
Mine has a lot more rollers. Yours seems to have only 2 each side
I can handle a bigger mainsail with no problem but my car has 6 rollers each side
However, the cleats are on the car which helps pulling angle & you apply more effort to pulling the car up the track

 

[onesea]

Sounds to me you ought to dump the SWMBO!!

Failing that it seems to me that the car is the problem. Too much friction
Mine has a lot more rollers. Yours seems to have only 2 each side
I can handle a bigger mainsail with no problem but my car has 6 rollers each side
However, the cleats are on the car which helps pulling angle & you apply more effort to pulling the car up the track

SWMBO has gone with sails clutches halyards autopilot in the last 6 months. We still do not have a Dishwasher but we have space for one...

Her idea for Valentine's day, was a 5 day mini cruise in the Solent.

SO maybe my text was a little unfair, we need to keep boat costs under control... Anyway anyone with good affordable solutions without changing the traveler please speak out...

 

[Daydream believer]

SWMBO has gone with sails clutches halyards autopilot in the last 6 months. We still do not have a Dishwasher but we have space for one...

Her idea for Valentine's day, was a 5 day mini cruise in the Solent.

SO maybe my text was a little unfair, we need to keep boat costs under control... Anyway anyone with good affordable solutions without changing the traveler please speak out...

The answer is to take some weight off the car
To do this take a couple of falls of rope down to an eye which you could put on the cockpit floor
This would leave 2 falls on the car ( ie about half the load - without doing calcs-)
Now the car can still be pulled up to wind or run down off wind.
It will not move the sail in & out so much but you should still get some control
This will only cost you a "u" bolt & perhaps a single sheave block
You may have to strengthen the cockpit floor with a plate
One thing you may be able to do is put a micro mainsheet adjustment on the end of the mainsheet where it goes to the cockpit floor which may help final sheeting & could be a bit of a plus

As for the Swmbo-- well you will have to work that out for yourself-- good luck

 

[johnphilip]

SWMBO has gone with sails clutches halyards autopilot in the last 6 months. We still do not have a Dishwasher but we have space for one...

Her idea for Valentine's day, was a 5 day mini cruise in the Solent.

SO maybe my text was a little unfair, we need to keep boat costs under control... Anyway anyone with good affordable solutions without changing the traveler please speak out...

I think you must suffer the existing for one more season, after further frustration with it you will be ready to justify a pukka system to both yourself and your better half.
I was fortunate that the boat came with a Harken track and car, but I did improve it with the conversion kit to auto jamming and release, it is brilliant. We sometimes do club handicap racing with just two or three aboard and it makes short tacking easy peasy. Before the tack the crew makes sure the new windward traveller line is within reach of the helm. As the boat goes through the tack the change of side of the mainsheet operates the cam cleats, releasing one and locking the other. The helm merely has to pull the new weather line and the boat is away while the crew winds the jib. Winding the jib is even made slightly easier as the boat is pointing up close to the wind.
http://www.harken.co.uk/productcategory.aspx?taxid=4217
Sorry I have no photos but the lead is taken from the jammer on the traveller to a loose block on the inside of the cockpit coaming, hence it can be pulled from any direction.

 

[William_H]

The simple answer to OP problem in my experience is that he is pulling the mainmsheet on too tight for the capacity of the traveller car. Ease the mainsheet a little and the friction is reduced enormously.
A more expensive option is to add another traveller car to share the load.
I have a 3 purchase traveller on about 130sqft mainsail.
The mainsheet is in such a position on the bridge deck that it is easy to over load the mainsheet. (4 purchase) Indeed I had to reinforce the bridge deck because it was flexing upward too much. My travelller control is much like your in photo. Usually controlled by a crew not helmsman. good luck olewill

 

[onesea]

Interesting observations, the gear is 30 years old and still relatively smooth running...

She has always been a race boat with ample supply of Gorrilas on the rail, certainly if I am just trimming I can handle the pull. When 2 up it becomes a bit of a handful but is a much more efficient way of ditching power, than the main sheet.

We already lower track to leeward before a tack and secure during the tack. The helm does this whilst playing with running backstays, if not it gets very messy :S.

There is a good article here http://www.harken.com/article.aspx?id=16233

Seems there advice is more purchase, the 30-40kg force from 3:1 seems about right to me 120 kg. Cannot be much more the Fiberglas is not that thick. I guess I need to find a Chandler that sells every type of block imaginable to see if I can make a working system at 5:1 25 kg force?

I used to have http://www.reliancemarine.com/SpecialDeals.aspx
On my door step not always the cheapest but you had sooo much choice... If your ever passing call in he makes the chandery barge look like amateurs..

Now on the south coast its hard to find some where you can look have real choice...

As you rightly say we are not in a rush, it will be a case of which I need to replace first the, Mainsheet track, those Lewmar 40's halyard winches....

 

[Slowtack]

On my last boat we had a Harken windward sheeting traveller system as described above by Johnphilip. Excellent piece of kit and sorely missed. Great for shorthanded trimming. I plan to go for this system when budget permits rather than install a cheaper system that does not perform as he describes.

 

[onesea]

On my last boat we had a Harken windward sheeting traveller system as described above by Johnphilip. Excellent piece of kit and sorely missed. Great for shorthanded trimming. I plan to go for this system when budget permits rather than install a cheaper system that does not perform as he describes.

It does sound like a neat system, although also out of my budget for the time being. So I will hunt the chanderies and boat jumbles to see if I can find some cheap blocks to increase the purchase...

 

[Iliade]

SWMBO has gone with sails clutches halyards autopilot in the last 6 months. We still do not have a Dishwasher but we have space for one...

Her idea for Valentine's day, was a 5 day mini cruise in the Solent.

SO maybe my text was a little unfair, we need to keep boat costs under control... Anyway anyone with good affordable solutions without changing the traveler please speak out...

Freecycle for the dishwasher and pick her some flowers, then change the traveller for a new one... (GP Barnes have a nice one sitting gathering dust in a corner)



How about tying the static end of the control line to the eyebolt (or thereabouts) and shackling a small pulley to the traveler where the fixed end was?

Or fabricate a plate to go under the top section of the traveller and mount the cam cleats on that?

 

[onesea]

Freecycle for the dishwasher and pick her some flowers, then change the traveller for a new one... (GP Barnes have a nice one sitting gathering dust in a corner)



How about tying the static end of the control line to the eyebolt (or thereabouts) and shackling a small pulley to the traveler where the fixed end was?

Or fabricate a plate to go under the top section of the traveller and mount the cam cleats on that?

That had become my conclusion too, although I will check if the Harken conversion kit fits I might get lucky. If not I need to find the right bits at the right price...

As for the flowers i threatened to buy her some once, "why buy me something that's already dieing", I find a good a Single Malt works well, or good rum (meaning better than Mount Gay) or Bombay Safire..

 

[Adamastor]

My 2d-worth: bin the built-in sheaves on the car. They are probably junk by now, and they only add friction at this point. The two ears on the ends of the car are perfect for shackling on two double blocks or double becket blocks, and these you would obviously match to the blocks at the outboard ends of the track The other snaggle is the condition of the rollers in the car- I'd wash those out with paraffin or similar if you can remove the car.
[Edit: I've just looked at the car. Wash it with some outboard de-salt spray stuff and WD40 it until it runs freely. Then definitely bin the integral sheaves. The top plate of the car looks perfect for shackling or tying a couple of blocks to. You might have to use twist-shackles as you want them to lie flat. Do yourself a favour and organise some 6mm braid-on-braid for the traveller line, and treat yourself to a new Chief String. A new mainsheet is like putting rally stripes on a Cortina: makes you lethally quick!]