Lying a- hull in a storm

RupertW said:
That’s fine if you are going to limit yourself to shortish ocean sails but really you need to be as confident as possible in your boat in nastier conditions.
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What, like the delivery skipper in the report was? That turned out well, especially for the poor sod who said he didn't want to go, then drowned.
 
Ive tried it on our Moody 33. Some 500 miles west of the Azores. Around 40 to 45 knots of breeze. Didn't get any water through the hatch except when sticking my head out every 10 minutes or so for an all round look. Fairly big seas.
Read a bit. Made some lunch. Got fed up, unrolled a bit of headsail and shot off towards the Azores at a comfortable speed. Hand steering. Mrs S remarked on how much nicer it was to be moving again. ?
 
capnsensible said:
Ive tried it on our Moody 33. Some 500 miles west of the Azores. Around 40 to 45 knots of breeze. Didn't get any water through the hatch except when sticking my head out every 10 minutes or so for an all round look. Fairly big seas.
Read a bit. Made some lunch. Got fed up, unrolled a bit of headsail and shot off towards the Azores at a comfortable speed. Hand steering. Mrs S remarked on how much nicer it was to be moving again. ?
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But then your a seasoned sailor....
 
Catalina36 said:
The main thing which comes out of reading that is not how to make the hatches watertight but don't find yourself out in conditions in which you need to lie a-hull in a storm. Setting off across Biscay in October with a forecast 7-8 is not what I would have called prudent.
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Undoubtedly, but the report does focus on the loss of the washboards as well.
 
Catalina36 said:
What, like the delivery skipper in the report was? That turned out well, especially for the poor sod who said he didn't want to go, then drowned.
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Not sure what your point is.

If you mean you should not set off in expected heavy weather with an unhappy or unwilling crew I agree, and I’ve put a crew member ashore on a delivery as he was to frightened to enjoy the trip after the first few days.

If you mean you should never set out if there is the possibility of heavy weather then I don’t agree, and frankly would rarely be able to leave the marina sailing where I am now between Canary islands, let alone the legs to get us down here.
 
capnsensible said:
Ive tried it on our Moody 33. Some 500 miles west of the Azores. Around 40 to 45 knots of breeze. Didn't get any water through the hatch except when sticking my head out every 10 minutes or so for an all round look. Fairly big seas.
Read a bit. Made some lunch. Got fed up, unrolled a bit of headsail and shot off towards the Azores at a comfortable speed. Hand steering. Mrs S remarked on how much nicer it was to be moving again. ?
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Lying ahull is as you say OK in 40-45 knots, not in a great deal more with big breaking seas. When I did it not a clue as to windspeed, but seas about the height of the rig, and occasional substantial breaking tops. A container ship was radioing SSB messages about containers lost from deck. Sea where not breaking all had the "fine-grained" look that a lot of wind gives, don't know how else to describe it.
 
I was one of the crew of a Bristol Channel pilot cutter with some damage to the rudder which ruled out our normal tactic - heaving to - due to the risk of the boat being set back on the weakened rudder. So we lay a-hull. Even in this big heavy boat and in quite moderate conditions (F9) it was horrible. No, thanks.
 
RupertW said:
Not sure what your point is.

If you mean you should not set off in expected heavy weather with an unhappy or unwilling crew I agree, and I’ve put a crew member ashore on a delivery as he was to frightened to enjoy the trip after the first few days.

If you mean you should never set out if there is the possibility of heavy weather then I don’t agree, and frankly would rarely be able to leave the marina sailing where I am now between Canary islands, let alone the legs to get us down here.
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At cross purposes I think. My first comment was that the report referenced at #5 about hatches more underscored not being out there in the first place in such conditions, which was a gentle hint to the OP that perhaps his question might not be the first one to ask. Your reply suggested that you need to go out in nasty conditions to see if the boat can take it. My reply implied that that can have its drawbacks when you find the limit as the delivery skipper did. He clearly didn't lack confidence either in the boat or himself and his crew but he lost the owner's boat and the crew's life.

Your ocean-crossing experience, of which I have none and want none having seen all I want to see in Channel waters and a small bit off Portugal, tells you that of course you need to know the boat can take it if you're going to cross oceans in it and there's only one way to find out. I don't disagree with that at all.
 
I don't think that sliding companion way hatches are the real problem. If anything it is the loose washboards, that can get lost or swept away. They need to be properly secured.
Most companion ways are on the centre line and are only at risk from down flooding at rather extreme angles of inversion.

A much greater risk to watertight integrity are cockpit lockers and these are commonly well within much less extreme down flooding angles.
I know at least one boat, CT41, that was lost mid Atlantic when one of her cockpit locker lids was swept away.
 
jwilson said:
Lying ahull is as you say OK in 40-45 knots, not in a great deal more with big breaking seas. When I did it not a clue as to windspeed, but seas about the height of the rig, and occasional substantial breaking tops. A container ship was radioing SSB messages about containers lost from deck. Sea where not breaking all had the "fine-grained" look that a lot of wind gives, don't know how else to describe it.
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Know what you mean. I've been through several worse storms on various boats and my own preference after that one time of laying a hull is to pop some headsail and run. Even if it's in the wrong direction for a bit. ?
 
During a storm in the North Pacific we ran off under bare poles towing a drogue in a classic Robert Clark. We were still doing 2-3kts in the wrong direction, but we had lost the forestay on her deck stepped mast and I was afraid to carry any sail at all.
The following seas regularly walked over her stern, right up to the house, leaving all in the cockpit sitting up to our chests in rushing water and popping the inflatable PFDs.
This experience has seriously dampened my enthusiasm for this approach in breaking seas and my regard for classic designs with elegant sterns and their lack of abundant buoyancy.
 
Laminar Flow said:
During a storm in the North Pacific we ran off under bare poles towing a drogue in a classic Robert Clark. We were still doing 2-3kts in the wrong direction, but we had lost the forestay on her deck stepped mast and I was afraid to carry any sail at all.
The following seas regularly walked over her stern, right up to the house, leaving all in the cockpit sitting up to our chests in rushing water and popping the inflatable PFDs.
This experience has seriously dampened my enthusiasm for this approach in breaking seas and my regard for classic designs with elegant sterns and their lack of abundant buoyancy.
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I can only say it's highly educational to read some of the experiences on here, and also highly reassuring that I'm reading someone else's account and have no need to go out and do it myself. I take my hat off to you, this ocean-crossing lark sounds like a barrel of laughs.
 
Buck Turgidson said:
Do people still think lying a hull is a good storm tactic?
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Who knows as most of us have only tried one or 2 "positions". I suspect as you get desperate you will try most things. All i know is no 2 boats or seas are the same. Do what works at the time. You start with one plan but may end up on a different plan.
 
Catalina36 said:
I can only say it's highly educational to read some of the experiences on here, and also highly reassuring that I'm reading someone else's account and have no need to go out and do it myself. I take my hat off to you, this ocean-crossing lark sounds like a barrel of laughs.
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To be honest, this was on the return trip, some 1500 miles from any help at that point, battling one depression after the other, cold and damp and the "fresh" undies growing fur in their lockers.
When the crew meets from time to time, as we still do, as friends, nobody ever talks about the gloriously, endless, sunny days bowling along under spinnaker on the way down.
We do talk of the return trip, of the first 1500 mile, miserable slog to windward ( out of 3500 miles), the water cascading down in a perfect sheet from the classic butterfly hatch into the lee bunk and the sense of achievement, the first meal and beer, when we finally got back.
We are a strange breed.
 
dulls said:
Who knows as most of us have only tried one or 2 "positions". I suspect as you get desperate you will try most things. All i know is no 2 boats or seas are the same. Do what works at the time. You start with one plan but may end up on a different plan.
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You will know it's properly breezy when you have to put two reefs in yer ensign. ?
 
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