LTD companies/Trading as or are they!!

[B27]

I purchased a car for my son through a finance company. So in essence the finance company bought the car. The dealer provided the warranty. The car was poor so I sued for breach of contract.. No VAT reciept from the dealer to finance company.

Steveeasy

Normally, with a car, there is a well understood right to return under the consumer rights act.
There is a proper procedure which is well documented and much discussed on several motoring forums.
There's also guidance on other motoring-related websites.
AIUI, the buyer can be expected to let the seller fix problems with a used car.
Used cars have their own sections of the legislation.

 

[ylop]

Steve, there is a legal requirement for a limited company to include its proper name (and in most cases its registration number) on any official document like its invoices, contracts etc. failing to do so can get you fined although I’ve never heard of it happening (and I’m sure if it does happen it’s when someone is doing it intentionally rather than through ignorance).

You question is, let’s say Mr John Smith operates a business he calls Smith Motors. The paperwork all simply says Smith Motors but he is a Director of Smith Motor Sales Ltd. Do you know if you are entering a contract with John Smith trading as Smith Motors or Smith Motor Sales Ltd trading as Smith Motors. Both are possible. He should have signs up in his premises as well as on his paperwork. I don’t think it would automatically follow that simply because he’s labelled the paperwork badly that you had not been dealing with the Ltd Co, but rather with him personally. I suspect ultimately that will be a question determined by who owned the vehicle sold to you, and where did the payment go. If the vehicle was owned by Smith Motor Sales Ltd and the funds received went to Smith Motor Sales Ltd then I’d expect the court would decide you were in contract with them, unless you could show that you were explicitly in contract with Mr John Smith personally. Now if you can show he has intentionally misled you or intentionally breached requirements of the companies act, then if Mr John Smith is a director (or shadow director) of Smith Motor Sales Ltd then he may be held liable for the actions of the company event if it was limited. I suspect that is going beyond the normal realms of small claims procedure - can you name multiple defendants on a claim? If so name them both, the court will decide. You likely want the one that gets the cash and owns the stock as getting paid from Mr John Smith may be very difficult if he’s the sort car trader who’s paperwork is this ambiguous!

 

[steveeasy]

Normally, with a car, there is a well understood right to return under the consumer rights act.
There is a proper procedure which is well documented and much discussed on several motoring forums.
There's also guidance on other motoring-related websites.
AIUI, the buyer can be expected to let the seller fix problems with a used car.
Used cars have their own sections of the legislation

Steve, there is a legal requirement for a limited company to include its proper name (and in most cases its registration number) on any official document like its invoices, contracts etc. failing to do so can get you fined although I’ve never heard of it happening (and I’m sure if it does happen it’s when someone is doing it intentionally rather than through ignorance).

You question is, let’s say Mr John Smith operates a business he calls Smith Motors. The paperwork all simply says Smith Motors but he is a Director of Smith Motor Sales Ltd. Do you know if you are entering a contract with John Smith trading as Smith Motors or Smith Motor Sales Ltd trading as Smith Motors. Both are possible. He should have signs up in his premises as well as on his paperwork. I don’t think it would automatically follow that simply because he’s labelled the paperwork badly that you had not been dealing with the Ltd Co, but rather with him personally. I suspect ultimately that will be a question determined by who owned the vehicle sold to you, and where did the payment go. If the vehicle was owned by Smith Motor Sales Ltd and the funds received went to Smith Motor Sales Ltd then I’d expect the court would decide you were in contract with them, unless you could show that you were explicitly in contract with Mr John Smith personally. Now if you can show he has intentionally misled you or intentionally breached requirements of the companies act, then if Mr John Smith is a director (or shadow director) of Smith Motor Sales Ltd then he may be held liable for the actions of the company event if it was limited. I suspect that is going beyond the normal realms of small claims procedure - can you name multiple defendants on a claim? If so name them both, the court will decide. You likely want the one that gets the cash and owns the stock as getting paid from Mr John Smith may be very difficult if he’s the sort car trader who’s paperwork is this ambiguous!

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I thought as much. Sometimes you can only second guess why people do things the way they do. you go on what you find.

Dealer sell me a car. 3 bad faults with it. 15 days being fixed but refuses to fix the major problem. Refuses to provide any details of warranty(nothing no idea what limitations) Then he lies to AA mediator say car bought as seen. then retracts this.

why would the same dealer not provide any information at all about trading as a LTD company. nothing. then when he is sued, advises the court its the wrong name now its a LTD company. Rational behaviour in defending a claim would be to leave it then raise the wrong name at trial so it was thrown out.

I think he is useing the LTD bit to avoid personal liability and to be clever. Hes not that clever though cos ive been paid the full balance of my claim today and the finance company are after him for the amount now.

Thanks for the guidance.
Steveeasy