LPG locker - alterations for BSS

alahol2 said:
I hate trying to work with chopped strand matt, I always make a hash of it. Is there any reason that a woven mat should be any less suitable for this type of job? I know it's a bit more expensive but at least it doesn't all fall apart as soon a you look at it.
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I don't think I've used large sections of woven mat, only the tape/ribbon kind with epoxy, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't work.

Shouldn't be needed though, bog-standard CSM will be fine, and arguably easier to position being slightly stiff rather than loose fabric.

Pete
 
i've got the same issue on my survey report. I have ignored it so far but want to resolve coz the b... insurers would use it as an excuse not to pay out.

IIRC back in the dark ages either a caravan or old boat of ours had a GRP bucket/liner with a drain at the bottom into which the gas bottle went - saves messing about with the sides of cockpit lockers which was the suggestion from the surveyor

anyone seen these, are they legal etc? I did a quick google but didn't find anything
 
That's exactly what I think they're after. That's what I had to fit on my old liveaboard. It's kind of what I have now, except that it's a wooden bucket, but the BSS asks that it's made of teh same material as the boat. I suspect, actually, that I could get away with leaving it in wood, but I still need to fit a drain in it, and for the sake of not much money, figure I could just give them what they're after anyway...

Though a pre-bought locker still needs to be secured/glassed in. Sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't...
 
Reptile Smile said:
That's exactly what I think they're after. That's what I had to fit on my old liveaboard. It's kind of what I have now, except that it's a wooden bucket, but the BSS asks that it's made of teh same material as the boat. I suspect, actually, that I could get away with leaving it in wood, but I still need to fit a drain in it, and for the sake of not much money, figure I could just give them what they're after anyway...
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Just to clarify in case people get confused, the BSS doesn't say that the gas locker has to be the same material as the boat (as you also claimed in the OP), but it does say that wooden gas lockers need to be lined with fibreglass. And obviously it has to be drained safely.
 
sailorman said:
what were the surveyors quals regarding gas
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Nothing specialist - but he did want me to spend yet more money on a gas survey by somebody qualified. Subsequent survey gave it the all clear (ie with the changes), who probably had similar depth of knowledge and views.
 
pampas said:
IMHOP Polyester resin is not the best for sticking to wood. I would use the West system of epoxy resin.
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Epoxy is better, but polyester will be perfectly satisfactory for this purpose. Even if the whole lot parted company with the wood, which it won't since there's no load or force causing it to do so, it would still be doing its job of providing an impermeable liner.

Pete
 
pvb said:
Just to clarify in case people get confused, the BSS doesn't say that the gas locker has to be the same material as the boat (as you also claimed in the OP), but it does say that wooden gas lockers need to be lined with fibreglass. And obviously it has to be drained safely.
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I'm sorry, it DOES say that, pvb. 7.4.5(R). It has to be a) same as hull, or b) metal, or c) 5mm frp but allows for a wooden box lined with frp to be equivalent.
 
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Reptile Smile said:
I'm sorry, it DOES say that, pvb. 7.4.5(R). It has to be a) same as hull, or b) metal, or c) 5mm frp but allows for a wooden box lined with frp to be equivalent.
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Cylinder lockers must be constructed of materials that are either
■ the same material and thickness of the surrounding hull structure; or,
■ metal of minimum thickness of approximately 1mm; or,
■ FRP of minimum thickness of approximately 5mm (1⁄4 in) thickness.
Note – a combination of wooden cylinder-lockers lined with FRP of
a lesser thickness than 5mm (1⁄4 in) may be estimated as equivalent.
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Mine is simply made of ply of the same thickness (9mm ??) as the bulkhead to which it is attached. I assume that satisfies the first of the above alternatives.
 
Reptile Smile said:
I'm sorry, it DOES say that, pvb. 7.4.5(R). It has to be a) same as hull, or b) metal, or c) 5mm frp but allows for a wooden box lined with frp to be equivalent.
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What it actually says is that a number of construction methods are acceptable - ie it doesn't have to be the same material as the hull.
 
VicS said:
Mine is simply made of ply of the same thickness (9mm ??) as the bulkhead to which it is attached. I assume that satisfies the first of the above alternatives.
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The bulkhead surely doesn't qualify as the "surrounding hull structure"?
 
The BSS makes its own rules, but it's hard to see the relevance of "surounding hull structure". My previous boat was planked with 2" larch, and the top four strakes were 2.5" oak. The frames were 3" sided cut oak. What should the gas box be made of?

Answers:- The galley bottles were strapped to the aft end of the deckhouse, out in the open.
The bottle for the forward toilet water heater, was in a 16mm plywood box, mounted on the weather deck.

Both these solutions were fine for the BSS survey.
 
Fair enough, Norman. My experience on both of my previous BSS examinations were that the examiners were reasonable chaps who tried to ensure that the spirit of the rules were applied, and not necessarily the letter of them. There was a sense of them trying to pass you, whilst bearing in mind that some things were 'non-negotiables'. There is, absolutely, provision in the rules for bottles stored in the open, with separate rules applying to this scenario - it was the locker that I sought clarification on. Your substantial wooden locker on a wooden boat would indeed seem to fulfill requirement (a), but it seems hard to argue both how my wooden locker on a GRP boat fulfills any of them, but why a locker that is fine on your boat wouldn't be ok on mine.

It's also true to say that some BSS certificates appear to have been issued with clear non-compliance. On my liveaboard, I needed to renew my BSS, and the examiner noted with a raised eyebrow that it had been passed with no locker at all, such that escaping gas would have gone into the bilges, in precisely the fashion it's not supposed and waited there to go bang. I never did find out whether it was passed due to incompetence or more nefarious reasons, but I was required to install a locker as per the rules (an all-GRP one on a steel boat, as it goes. Sigh...)
 
I too found it far easier to work with matt rather than cross strand which has a tendency to fall apart if you fiddle about with it too long.

I also found I got a far better bond if I painted a layer of resin onto the wood first.

Wait for it to become tacky, then slap on your matt or x strand and paint on another layer of resin and roller it into the matt.

This just seems easier to work with as the wood isnt wicking away the resin so much.

If the first layer is still tacky then you will get the chemical bond.
If you have let it fully cure, give it a quick sand to key it.

If it was me, I would try and do as much of it at home as possible. Maybe take carboard templates from the boat and cut the wood at home, giving it the grp treatment.
Then assemble back a the boat on a nice warm day.
You would only have to worry about glassing in the corners with your head in the locker. Much easier!

Resin is amazing stuff. Perfectly easy to get to know but has its on idiosyncrasies, like anything.
This seems like a good sized starter project.

Good luck!

S
 
R S. Your experience of BSS examiners mirrors my own, in that a certain amount of leeway was given. Mine was a seagiong boat, kept in a canal in the winter. Eyebrows were raised at sight-glasses on fuel tanks, but when I offered to disconnect them from their isolating valves, for the survey, I was told not to bother. Chap knew fine that I would just have re-fitted them.

In your case, with a gas bottle installation ready to drain into the bilge, the BSS was definitely looking after your, and others, safety.
 
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