LPG and proximity to other boats

[Wobbly First Mate]

Hi everyone. I am very new to boating, being just 3 weeks into living aboard a catamaran after more than 6 years living in a motorhome. Thankfully my partner has been boating for many years - otherwise it is unlikely that I would be embarking on this adventure.

One thing that is puzzling me is that with motorhomes there is the ‘6 metre rule’ by which vans have to be parked a minimum of 6 metres from one another - this being due to the risk of taking other vans with you if you have an lpg explosion. However in marinas boats with lpg aboard are moored close enough to pass a cup of coffee to your next door neighbour, and in some instances even rafted together. Is this considered safe from a gas point of view with boats? Why is it different from motorhomes? I would be interested in any opinions on the matter. Thank you.

Marian

 

[Tranona]

Gas is perfectly safe if the proper equipment is installed and a few basic rules observed. While there has been the odd gas explosion in moored boats and that may well result in the adjacent boats being affected it is not generally seen as a big issue because of the rarity.

Anyway water space is very scarce and adopting that rule would reduce the capacity of a marine by approx 75%. Not sure that would go down too well!

 

[[3889]]

Hi everyone. I am very new to boating, being just 3 weeks into living aboard a catamaran after more than 6 years living in a motorhome. Thankfully my partner has been boating for many years - otherwise it is unlikely that I would be embarking on this adventure.

One thing that is puzzling me is that with motorhomes there is the ‘6 metre rule’ by which vans have to be parked a minimum of 6 metres from one another - this being due to the risk of taking other vans with you if you have an lpg explosion. However in marinas boats with lpg aboard are moored close enough to pass a cup of coffee to your next door neighbour, and in some instances even rafted together. Is this considered safe from a gas point of view with boats? Why is it different from motorhomes? I would be interested in any opinions on the matter. Thank you.

Marian

We had a motorhome for 15 years and the only recollection I hae of being 6m from next door was during the single night we stayed on a Caravan Club site. On the Aires in France you are lucky to be able to open the door without hitting next door's van.

 

[Birdseye]

One thing that is puzzling me is that with motorhomes there is the ‘6 metre rule’ by which vans have to be parked a minimum of 6 metres from one another

Really? Where are you based - is it somewhere rule bound like Germany, because here in the UK there is no way that caravans are 6 m apart on many sites.

Is it really a rule or just good practice?

 

[Wobbly First Mate]

Gas is perfectly safe if the proper equipment is installed and a few basic rules observed. While there has been the odd gas explosion in moored boats and that may well result in the adjacent boats being affected it is not generally seen as a big issue because of the rarity.

Anyway water space is very scarce and adopting that rule would reduce the capacity of a marine by approx 75%. Not sure that would go down too well!

Thank you for your reply. Gas explosions in motorhomes are thankfully a rarity too but I have seen footage of the damage done to neighbouring motorhomes even at 6m distance.

I take your point about water space being scarce. I wonder if the 6m rule would have ever been introduced on camp sites if land was as scarce?

 

[Wobbly First Mate]

We had a motorhome for 15 years and the only recollection I hae of being 6m from next door was during the single night we stayed on a Caravan Club site. On the Aires in France you are lucky to be able to open the door without hitting next door's van.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, the Caravan Club sites definitely go for the 6m spacing, and it’s a requirement for their network of CLs (5 van sites); the same for the Camping & Caravanning Club and their network of CSS. Also any rallies organised by these clubs are required to space vans 6m apart.

I have not travelled on the continent with the motorhome but am aware that the French aires are more like car parks.

 

[Wobbly First Mate]

Really? Where are you based - is it somewhere rule bound like Germany, because here in the UK there is no way that caravans are 6 m apart on many sites.

Is it really a rule or just good practice?

Thank you for your reply. No, I was UK based. I suspect the ‘rule’ is probably a recommendation rather than a legal requirement. But I was curious as to why there seems to be no similar recommendation for boats in marinas.

 

[wallacebob]

I understand the "rule" is not about LPG explosion, which is unlikely in a caravan, but simply fire (and maybe privacy!). As caravans used to be mainly timber frames with fabric and foam upholstery, fire could rapidly spread. The space was so that an adjoining vehicle could be moved safely. The two main UK clubs use this, but even they do have exceptions. They also have minimum spacing for awning and vehicle. Most commercial sites have closer spacing.

 

[Wobbly First Mate]

I understand the "rule" is not about LPG explosion, which is unlikely in a caravan, but simply fire (and maybe privacy!). As caravans used to be mainly timber frames with fabric and foam upholstery, fire could rapidly spread. The space was so that an adjoining vehicle could be moved safely. The two main UK clubs use this, but even they do have exceptions. They also have minimum spacing for awning and vehicle. Most commercial sites have closer spacing.

Thank you for your reply. Ah, so maybe it is down to the differences in construction between motorhomes/caravans and boats.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

If you search the YBW site, you'll find a series where they used a "Crash Test Boat" to test various calamitous things that can happen to a boat. The final test was a gas explosion! But there were two interesting results from that test. First, it turned out to be MUCH harder than they anticipated to actually trigger a gas explosion; I think they were on their last attempt when they actually got it to go bang! It turns out that the ratio of gas to air is critical, and actually rather hard to achieve. The other interesting thing is that the explosion didn't do much that would result in damage to an adjacent boat - the explosion was confined in the hull/cabin, and although the hull-deck joint burst open, the explosion was MOSTLY confined. I think that the hull of a yacht is FAR stronger than the shell of a motorhome or caravan, so the force goes up rather than out. There certainly wasn't a fireball or anything approaching one.

 

[Graham376]

I have not travelled on the continent with the motorhome but am aware that the French aires are more like car parks.

Many coastal car parks in Portugal fill up with the things in winter, often just one car parking space between them at the most. Tables and chairs strategically placed to stop others coming too close. Places often stink as many just dump holding tanks into nearest roadside rainwater drain.

 

[Quandary]

That 6m. 'rule' seems to apply to when they are under way as well, from Easter onward Argyll's only road is choked with the things, usually in pairs keeping close enough to ensure that most of the half dozen passing places between here and Balloch are not long enough to get more than one or two cars out of the queue of twenty plus past them.

 

[[3889]]

. Places often stink as many just dump holding tanks into nearest roadside rainwater drain.

Thank god no boat owners do that in marinas, hey!

 

[Mistroma]

I wonder if there's a business opportunity here to sell something to self extinguish fires on yachts. I envisage something to deploy some fire suppressing material around the perimeter of the hull in the event of a fire.

All suggestions welcome .

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think that the hull of a yacht is FAR stronger than the shell of a motorhome or caravan ...

Indeed. If one whiles away an entertaining few moments with a "caravan crash compilation" search on YouTube, it soon become obvious that compared to boats, caravans are extraordinarily flimsy. For example:

 

[James_Calvert]

I wonder if there's a business opportunity here to sell something to self extinguish fires on yachts. I envisage something to deploy some fire suppressing material around the perimeter of the hull in the event of a fire.

All suggestions welcome .

I know just the stuff. Would you prefer still, sparkling, or the more economical ready salted?

 

[Wobbly First Mate]

If you search the YBW site, you'll find a series where they used a "Crash Test Boat" to test various calamitous things that can happen to a boat. The final test was a gas explosion! But there were two interesting results from that test. First, it turned out to be MUCH harder than they anticipated to actually trigger a gas explosion; I think they were on their last attempt when they actually got it to go bang! It turns out that the ratio of gas to air is critical, and actually rather hard to achieve. The other interesting thing is that the explosion didn't do much that would result in damage to an adjacent boat - the explosion was confined in the hull/cabin, and although the hull-deck joint burst open, the explosion was MOSTLY confined. I think that the hull of a yacht is FAR stronger than the shell of a motorhome or caravan, so the force goes up rather than out. There certainly wasn't a fireball or anything approaching one.

Thank you for that. I have just been reading the article you refer to and found it very interesting. It does seem that any explosion goes upwards. I still wouldn’t want to be too close to one though.

 

[Tranona]

Indeed. If one whiles away an entertaining few moments with a "caravan crash compilation" search on YouTube, it soon become obvious that compared to boats, caravans are extraordinarily flimsy. For example:

Jeremy Clarkson and friends carried out a number of well constructed tests of the robustness (or not) of caravans. Did their bit to rid the world of the horrible things!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Jeremy Clarkson and friends carried out a number of well constructed tests of the robustness (or not) of caravans. Did their bit to rid the world of the horrible things!

Oxy-acetylene seems to deal with them very effectively

 

[Graham376]

Oxy-acetylene seems to deal with them very effectively

For the annual gliding club bonfire we used to fill bin liners with oxy and acet, detonated by explosives detonators and battery. Banned after 2 bags exploded as we were filling, just touched together and static did the rest, several people slightly injured.