Low Levels

byron

byron

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I have lived here at Ashmount to close on a quarter of a century and I have never seen the levels as low as they were on Saturday & Sunday. (I haven't checked today)

Possibly this has something to do with Ian having been sacked as Lock Keeper and Reliefs running Cleve Lock thus leaving the Weir Gates without proper supervision.
 
byron said:
I have lived here at Ashmount to close on a quarter of a century and I have never seen the levels as low as they were on Saturday & Sunday. (I haven't checked today)

Possibly this has something to do with Ian having been sacked as Lock Keeper and Reliefs running Cleve Lock thus leaving the Weir Gates without proper supervision.
Click to expand...

Cleeve lockeeper admitted that there had been a "c0ck up" and said "I shouldnt really be telling you..."
 
byron said:
I have lived here at Ashmount to close on a quarter of a century and I have never seen the levels as low as they were on Saturday & Sunday. (I haven't checked today)

Possibly this has something to do with Ian having been sacked as Lock Keeper and Reliefs running Cleve Lock thus leaving the Weir Gates without proper supervision.
Click to expand...


I can sell you a set of wheels for the launch!!!
 
Blimey , was meant as a joke.

I won't bother trying to inject any humour into the forum in future.

How much did it drop ? because even if it dropped a foot , if you are leaving your boat with less than a foot of water under the keel , i would question if it was the right thing to do.
 
teddington_lock said:
Blimey , was meant as a joke.

I won't bother trying to inject any humour into the forum in future.

How much did it drop ? because even if it dropped a foot , if you are leaving your boat with less than a foot of water under the keel , i would question if it was the right thing to do.
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On my stretch is wasn't so much as a drop. It was a consistent low level of about 9" below Summer levels. Today it is back up to normal for the time of year.
As a matter of interest Apollo isn't/can't name the Cleve Lock Keeper as he has been fired. Whom-so-ever he spoke to would be a Relief.
I saw Ian the other day he is "squatting" in the lock house until Envag evict him which means South Oxfordshire will then have to re-house him. He seems very cheerful about the situation (either that or he is just putting on a brave face). Ian has had the Lock for something like 25 years.
 
teddington_lock said:
Blimey , was meant as a joke.

I won't bother trying to inject any humour into the forum in future.

How much did it drop ? because even if it dropped a foot , if you are leaving your boat with less than a foot of water under the keel , i would question if it was the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

I like a joke the same as the next man, but for some people that is their life savings sitting there.Sorry, but a slip up by a lockie could cost me dearly and I am afraid I would not find that very funny.

Skiffs, Slipper owners and toffs - yeah thats funny, but damaging someones pride an joy - not funny.

Everywhere I moor on the Thames bankside (with extremely rare exception) has less than a foot of water under the boat, do we really want to get started on dredging again?

If the EA take my registration money for a boat with 3 foot 6 draft, then it should be a contractual obligation to provide depth > 3'6" but alas there are lots of places that fall short of this.

Last week had to wait in central channel lower approach to Benson Lock and stirred up all sorts of silt and leaves and such. Ten minutes later both water filters blocked.

I can cope with that kind of grief even jokes about being a **** stirrer!!
 
Look on the bright side Byron.

If the levels get much lower, you will be able to buy an ex-Police car from the auctions and drive that up and down your reach.....LOL
 
We tried to moor on the flat meadow above Days Lock last Wednesday afternoon, where we usually have no problems, and went very hard aground. Went to speak to the lock keeper (by dinghy) he said level would continue to drop that afternoon, but by midnight it would would start to rise again; we put a stick in the bank & it did rise by 4" overnight. By Friday it was up another 3". Went back to South Stoke, opposite Sheridan Marine, and spent Friday & Saturday evenings there, didn't notice the depth as being low, but yesterday went down to Hurley & low levels very noticeable all the way, should imagine some 7" lower than normal. Strangely the river has being flowing quite fast at times, particularly the beginning of last week. Even tonight kayaking on the Henley reach there's a decent flow, with the level down about 3-4". Is somebody abstracting water, or is a reservoir being filled up? Friends canoeing on the Kennet yesterday say that's down about 14" in some areas.
 
ianc1200 said:
Even tonight kayaking on the Henley reach there's a decent flow, with the level down about 3-4". Is somebody abstracting water, or is a reservoir being filled up?
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Maybe they are dropping it in anticipation of the forecasted rain pushing it up again to avoid flooding.
 
Doesn't work like that. I think i've explained it before somewhere.

We react to water levels rising , we don't create holes for the incoming water to fill ( intentionally ;) )
 
teddingtonlock said:
How much did it drop ? because even if it dropped a foot , if you are leaving your boat with less than a foot of water under the keel , i would question if it was the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

apollo said:
Everywhere I moor on the Thames bankside (with extremely rare exception) has less than a foot of water under the boat, do we really want to get started on dredging again?

If the EA take my registration money for a boat with 3 foot 6 draft, then it should be a contractual obligation to provide depth > 3'6" but alas there are lots of places that fall short of this.
Click to expand...

Interesting comment from both of you.

Howards comment re inadvisability of leaving the boat with less than a foot of water underneath would, in any normal tidal navigation be seen as bad seamanship unless at low water or intentionally prepared to dry out. However, on the non tidal Thames. hardly a practical proposition for any boat drawing more than 3 feet if we have to be prepared for a 12" fall on 'normal' levels.

Indeed, this sort of drop on normal would pose severe navigational problems even in the fairway. We can usually cope pretty well with too much water - just need to be more cautious with bridge clearances - but too little water is a potentially serious issue.

The EA Charter gives specific 'target' water depths for the various stretches of the river but they are only targets and only apply to the fairway - middle third of the river as they put it.

The fact is that there are many places I cannot get alongside the bank with a 4' draft so even a 3' draft vessel would not have 12" under the keel.

What puzzles me in all this is the simple question - WHAT GIVES ??? If Howards assurance that they do not create holes in advance is true, what other reasons can there be for sudden severe drops of levels well beyond the targets?
 
Well , the water shouldn't fall 12 inches , i'm not saying be prepared for it , because i would like to think that it doesn't happen too often.

Weir keeping isn't an exact science , it comes from experience. I would like to think i run Teddingtons weir pretty well , but i wouldn't like to start second guessing what they do upriver . Likewise if i was put in charge of an upriver weir , i probably wouldn't get it right first time.

Everyone has to learn somewhere , and unfortunately it has to be on the actual structures themselves. When i first started a few years ago, we were shown the weirs as we worked at each lock . I started in the summer , and didn't actually get a chance to 'use' the weir properly for a good few months until the winter came , as pulling gates in and out in the summer can lead to disasters.

Many things can cause 'holes' not just us. As an example , Thames Water Control might have began pumping into one of the reservoirs and neglected to inform the EA duty officer ( it can happen ) . The lockie has set the weir beleiving that it is right , and then suddenly someone pumps 500 million gallons out of the reach .... what do you think will happen ?

H
 
teddington_lock said:
Well , the water shouldn't fall 12 inches , i'm not saying be prepared for it , because i would like to think that it doesn't happen too often.

Everyone has to learn somewhere , and unfortunately it has to be on the actual structures themselves.

Many things can cause 'holes' not just us. As an example , Thames Water Control might have began pumping into one of the reservoirs and neglected to inform the EA duty officer ( it can happen ) .
Click to expand...

Sorry to say this, Howard, and no reflection on your personal knowledge and expertise, but in this day and age IMHO a benign acceptance of these issues is no longer good enough. Disciplines, procedures AND PENALTIES need to be in place to make sure they are rare occurrences.

Unless some level of guaranteed navigation and mooring is clearly in place the river will decline and be 'unsuitable for navigation' for the craft that pay the greatest share of the registration fees - and we are getting mighty close to that situation now. Any boat with a draft of over 3 feet is unable to moor alongside in many, many places on the river - even between Teddington and Reading, let alone Oxford and beyond.
 
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I think that we need to remember that the Thames is a river and not a canal (and even they can go wrong sometimes, one dried out completely last year), and also, perhaps, look at the suitability of the craft used on it. I sail on a friend's long keel ocean going yacht, clearly not suitable for inland use and that only draws four and a half feet. We've talked about demasting and bringing it up river sometime, but he would be well aware of the limitations at all times, similarly if I have a good little inland boat like my old Viking for instance, I wouldn't expect to take it to sea.

I would certainly consider mooring with less than a foot of water, have done so on the Brocas and woken up to find my boat grounded (so that was why nobody else moored there...) but poling the boat off was part of the experience and not a "who do I sue" opportunity. With all the nobs on their eBay speedboats or expensive slippers I would also expect a few bumps due to the turbulence if moored in a shallow spot.


"Disciplines, procedures AND PENALTIES" - aaaaggghhhhh!!!! That would only serve to make the river less fun, as would speed cameras and parking enforcement officers however annoying speeding boats are. Don't even think about it!!!

Oh, and finally T-L, with my Civil Engineering hat on, the relationship between head levels and flow over weirs is pretty scientific, I could probably still do the maths if you like (c:

[/rant]

R
 
I'm trying to explain it to you guys. I don't need sarcasm that 'it's pretty scientific' thanks.

I'm trying to help , not be a vehicle for the EA.

If you are setting your weir at 1800 to be ok for the night , all you can do is your best , there are many things that can influence it.

Everyone else knows best it seems .

I have to be honest , i'm struggling to see myself being a part of this forum any more , i try to help and offer explanations to how things work from an inside point of view and i just seem to get shot down all the time .

Get on with it yourselves. Going to take a break from here for now. If any of you are passing ( and have a good word to say ) please say hello.
 
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