Lost rudder in mid-Atlantic

[Twister_Ken]

I fully understand and agree with your concern about publishing names and email addresses on the internet but I think it is in your friends interest that the yacht name is published as you need as wide an audience knowing of his or her plight to garner as much information as possible.

The name of the yacht is already abroad and is not secret. I get sent lists of distress messages daily and spend a large amount of time monitoring the commercial maritime and amateur maritime bands and can search back through historic lists as a follow up if ever I need to do so. I often get asked where the "Lynn Rival" was when its EPIRB was triggered and it certainly was not SW of the Seychelles as most people have been lead to believe but north of west.

It is like asking for urgent help for a specific component for a yacht and then not bothering to explain whereabouts in the world this help is required.

Don't agree. It's enough to know that a yacht requires assistance. It doesn't improve our response if we know it's the yacht Wotzit that requires assistance.

 

[Crabman]

Use two buckets or drogues , make fast one around winch , and steer with other on other winch. DO NOT use washboard or pole as you may need the washboard in severe weather to close off hatch . Yes this does work. Had to use in Biscay when rudder stock snapped in full gale .

 

[charles_reed]

Don't agree. It's enough to know that a yacht requires assistance. It doesn't improve our response if we know it's the yacht Wotzit that requires assistance.

When I had my broken rudder-blade , I found it fairly easy to set the boat up on main and foresail, going to windward, but absolutely impossible to get her running downwind.
Drogues were useless and the only thing that worked (after a fashion) was an oar vertically over the stern - I broke three, before the Barmouth Mersey came out and towed me back to Pwllheli.

 

[Searush]

I take the point about leverage on a steering oar pulled for steerage, but for a thousand years boats of all sizes were steered using an oar. It's just that it would have a right angle handle at the cockpit & was TWISTED to provide steerage.

There is no need to sudden movement in an ocean, this is all about holding a general direction rather than a narrow channel. Many early self-steering units simply used a small direct rudder rather than the more sophisticated servo-tabs now common. An oar should work if lashed to twist rather than pull. In addition, if the cross piece is strong enough (perhaps a chunk of 2x4 morticed onto a tenon on top of oar) then it can be lashed to set a course.

 

[Crabman]

Better go out and buy an Arpege then.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I am well out of my depth with this one but have had one experience that might be relevant.

A charter boat (Westerly something) out of Falmouth with a crew of Sea Cadets. Steering failed on a cross Channel to Alderney. The steering system was rod based with numerous direction changes via gear boxes. The symptoms were very hard to comprehend as the wheel was "notching" as turned. Picking up a mooring in Alderney was eventful with one cracked rib for me.

Knowledge of the system on board the subject boat might help.

 

[vyv_cox]

The best shape for inducing drag is a sphere, when towed it will 'stick' to the water and submerge.

That's very interesting. I guess that most of us would assume a vertical disc of the same diameter would induce more drag. Would we be guessing wrong?

 

[Wandering Star]

I've never experienced a steering failure but have made several longer passages so have considered what I'd do! My thoughts are that unless you have a really strong pre-fabricated emergency steering system, the forces of the water, the drag caused by hooking weed/flotsam, the shock forces caused by falling off waves etc, on any temporary lashup steering system just isn't go to work for a passage of more than a day or two. It's not worth the stress and loss of sleep.

My plan would be a more psychological approach than a mechanical one. Certainly use some sort of simple but robust drag device (bunch of fenders, bucket, half inflated dinghy, whatever) to provide a bias in the direction you'd like to head, but then just sit back and relax, enjoy the soltitude and all the other reasons for going sailing, just wait and see what land you get blown toward. Once 100 miles off or less, send out an "all ships" broadcast to explain the predicament. Hopefully another yottie will be prepared to up anchor and come out to assist with a tow. Or even, if you have a good supply of outboard fuel you could tow yourself in with the dinghy lashed alongside (another thing i've never actually tried myself).

Unless water is coming into the boat, I think a willingness to accept the inconvenience of a longer passage to a possibly different landfall is far preferable to getting all depressed and stressed about finding a solution that probably won't work.

Cheers, Brian.

 

[AliM]

"That's very interesting. I guess that most of us would assume a vertical disc of the same diameter would induce more drag. Would we be guessing wrong? "

I thought so too, but intuitively, I think it's the instability of the disc placed perpendicular to the flow which means that in practice it has less drag. A dragged disc would veer and try to tilt, and any small tilt would allow more water past and hence reduce the drag. I'm not sure I can get from that conclusion to say that the sphere has maximum drag, though.

 

[peterb]

I've never had this happen for real, but have spent half a day trying it as an exercise.

As Searush says, the best bet is a vertical rudder blade. It's surprising how small this needs to be; on a 40' boat we found that a dinghy oar gave quite good results. It needs to be as far aft as possible. We found that we could rig up the equivalent of pintles by two lengths of rope leading from the top of the blade (near to the join between the bottom and the transom) and up to the side of the boat, with a similar pair of lines near the top of the oar to keep the oar vertical, and to stop it from coming out of the water. The second oar was lashed to make a tiller.

Almost certainly a dinghy oar would not be strong enough for mid-Atlantic sailing, but the principle might be usable.

 

[little_roundtop]

Thanks again!

Thank you all again for your prompt and helpful replies. The couple in question have told me that they have enough info to be going on with so, for now, thank you.

Regarding naming the boat and the couple, I have done exactly this on the private CA forums where I know who can access this information, but I don't believe it's right to publish these details on a public and open forum such at this.

Tony Cross

 

[Poignard]

Well please let us know how they get on and what method works best.

 

[Poignard]

FWIW, if I were your friends I would do as Searush suggests and make a steering oar from the boom and bunkboards, or the cabin table, or whatever can be found. I doubt the spinnaker pole would be strong enough and it will, in any case, be needed for poling out a headsail or as a yard arm. Val Howells steered his boat across the Atlantic like that after losing his rudder.

I have just found the book by Valentine Howells, it is "Up That Particular Creek". His boat had a deep fin keel and without the rudder it was unstable and impossible to steer using the sails alone or towing drogues. Eventually he made a jury rudder from two spinnaker poles and the paddle from the boat's pendulum vane steering system, which was not easy as he had to drill s/s components using a hand drill. Steering for long periods exposed to the sun was exhausting but eventually he reached the West Indies, near enough to be helped into port by a French yacht. Let me know if you need any more detail.

 

[macd]

little roundtop: I think I know this couple (if they left from Mindalo, Cape Verde). Thoughts with them. Do keep us posted.

 

[lenseman]

Patrick and Amanda aboard "Egret" are making slow progress and have 'sailed' 32½nm SW from the position where they lost their rudder.

They are currently at 14° 38.148'N 038° 8.653'W and a good friend of mine, Cap'nFatty Goodlander aboard "Wild Card" who has been cruising worldwide for the past 20 years or so and is extremely experienced. Has been in direct contact with them to assist as he is westbound on the ARC but some 831nm ahead of them.

http://fattygoodlander.com/

You can follow the progress of "Egret" on: http://www.sailblogs.com/member/egret/

"Egret" needs to stay south of the nasty intense 'low' sitting at 32° 32'N 046° 53'W, this weather system caused "Wild Card" to have to ride out the weather under bare poles with a drogue deployed!

 

[fisherman]

That's very interesting. I guess that most of us would assume a vertical disc of the same diameter would induce more drag. Would we be guessing wrong?

No idea, but difficult to stabilize, although a sea anchor is more or less so. We also did some research, or rather hit and miss efforts when we had to attach struts under a planing hull, in Vee form to support the skeg. The first thing we were told was that a round section would produce most turbulence. We tried rectangular section and it was a nightmare, vibration and thrumming unbelievable. Then we had the 75mm x 20mm rectangular struts machined down to a teardrop section, profiled in thirds, ie thickest at one third back from the leading edge, round nose, more or less hydrofoil section. Smooth as.

The round nose is the same as a round section, but it is the trailing edge which causes the trouble, so the sphere does the job. Next time you go to sea try holding a rope with a round fender towing.

 

[LadyInBed]

Thank you all again for your prompt and helpful replies. The couple in question have told me that they have enough info to be going on with so, for now, thank you.

A bit late but would this work?

 

[Blueboatman]

Capt Fatty is pretty hands on. His books are a pretty good read too. Reckon there will be beer involved when they meet up safely at journeys end

 

[Searush]

A bit late but would this work?

That's quite neat, it probably wouldn't matter that the front end moved across either. I suspect it would only need VERY small adjustments to hold a course.

 

[photodog]

That's quite neat, it probably wouldn't matter that the front end moved across either. I suspect it would only need VERY small adjustments to hold a course.

I would think you would need some drag on the aft end of that to keep it in position.... maybe a drogue or bucket on a line....