Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

[AntarcticPilot]

I understand that none of the Cambridge University's were ever Polytechnics, if that helps at all

Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertized on the nameboards at Cambridge stat

 

[AntarcticPilot]

And how about river Crouch, is it good for sailing, considering I don't want to leave it and sail on open sea?

Why not? It's a good deal safer on the open sea!

 

[Old Harry]

Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertized on the nameboards at Cambridge stat

Correct

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Correct

I know - it was CCAT when I was at the University! One college of Cambridge University does have a non-University history - Homerton College was a college of education before it became part of the University.

Both were well known to students at Cambridge University in my day - because of the gender imbalance of the University (since mainly corrected; I am pleased to say that my college (Churchill) was one of the first three to go co-ed), places which accommodated young women were of great interest! Most people knew someone with a girlfriend at one of these two or at Addenbrookes.

 

[slawosz]

Why not? It's a good deal safer on the open sea!

Why so?
I mean, I understand that on bad weather it much, much safer, but I am not planning to sail above F4, plus I will sail sometimes with my 7yo son, so probably for beginning I would be quite uncomfortable. I have sea and sailing experience, but I am not confident enough not to be within several minutes from shore....
To be honest I would like to sail on the lakes, but there is nothing around London - and dinghies in gravel pits are fun but I would like to be able to sail without changing direction for longer than 2 minutes
So Blackwater or Stour are better for kind of sailing I described above?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Why so?
I mean, I understand that on bad weather it much, much safer, but I am not planning to sail above F4, plus I will sail sometimes with my 7yo son, so probably for beginning I would be quite uncomfortable. I have sea and sailing experience, but I am not confident enough not to be within several minutes from shore....
To be honest I would like to sail on the lakes, but there is nothing around London - and dinghies in gravel pits are fun but I would like to be able to sail without changing direction for longer than 2 minutes
So Blackwater or Stour are better for kind of sailing I described above?

Sea room is the first essential for safety, and sea room is exactly what you don't have in the estuaries of the East Coast. Suppose your engine fails (they do!)? Given the combination of wind and tide in a river, you may not be able to make progress to windward - and shoal water is all around you. Or what if your force 4 suddenly changes to a force 6 - as it could well do in a gust. Again, lack of sea room could be your undoing. Of course, you can anchor, but then, in the rivers you are in proximity to many other vessels, both pleasure and commercial craft.

Of course, a competent sailor CAN deal with all the hazards of sailing in confined waters, but all those hazards are MUCH less in open water! "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea" by Arthur Ransome portrays exactly this situation, where a group of children know they are safe (if uncomfortable) because they know which way to head to gain sea room. The same scenario in more enclosed waters would result in them running aground, and potentially being wrecked.

In general I am relaxed and happy when at sea, distant from hazards, but nervous and tense when in confined waters.

 

[slawosz]

Sea room is the first essential for safety, and sea room is exactly what you don't have in the estuaries of the East Coast. Suppose your engine fails (they do!)? Given the combination of wind and tide in a river, you may not be able to make progress to windward - and shoal water is all around you. Or what if your force 4 suddenly changes to a force 6 - as it could well do in a gust. Again, lack of sea room could be your undoing. Of course, you can anchor, but then, in the rivers you are in proximity to many other vessels, both pleasure and commercial craft.

Of course, a competent sailor CAN deal with all the hazards of sailing in confined waters, but all those hazards are MUCH less in open water! "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea" by Arthur Ransome portrays exactly this situation, where a group of children know they are safe (if uncomfortable) because they know which way to head to gain sea room. The same scenario in more enclosed waters would result in them running aground, and potentially being wrecked.

In general I am relaxed and happy when at sea, distant from hazards, but nervous and tense when in confined waters.

@AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
- sailing only during favourable conditions
- not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
- buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?

 

[Old Harry]

@AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
- sailing only during favourable conditions
- not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
- buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?

Bilge keelers tend to stay in the mud,once in embedded in it, fin keelers are able to heel over & reduce their draft, thus less likely to stay in the mud.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

@AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
- sailing only during favourable conditions
- not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
- buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?

I think you're confusing "sheltered" with "safe". Safety at sea depends on many factors, of which shelter is one, and not the least important. But you always need to consider "what if" scenarios, and then other things like the limited sea room, strong tidal currents and busy, crowded water come to light. At sea, once out of shipping channels and in water deep enough for your boat, you are (in general) much less likely to get into difficulties than in confined waters with a lot of traffic. A factor I didn't mention before is that at sea, the wind tends to be much steadier and consistent than it is near the shore.

Even Rutland Water and gravel pits have their own dangers; people die in the latter on a regular basis when swimming in hot weather!

 

[PeterWright]

Hi,

I live in Burnham-on-Crouch and, sadly, from the point of view of yacht sailing, I have to agree with Tam Lin. It was until about 10 years ago, a Mecca for yacht racing on the East Coast, but this was lost when yachts got bigger. When I first raced here, a Stella (LOA 25' 10") was a decent sized yacht, equally capable of the North Sea race or tacking up river from Burnham round the cans. As yachts grew in size, the local clubs insisted on sending class ! yachts up river for some of the races in Burnham Week and the Sail East Crouch regatta, which just accelerated the fall off in visiting yachts. This, coupled with the general fall off in yacht racing has led to the Crouch becoming more of a place for open keel boat racing than yacht racing. It's still workable for yacht cruising, particularly with smaller yachts under 30' LOA, but doesn't hold a candle to the Orwell in terms of possible places to go for a day sail.

Despite living in Burnham, I keep my yacht on the Orwell and have a clinker dinghy here in Burnham for exploring the 2 rivers (Crouch and Roach) and their creeks.

That's my take on it

Peter

 

[PaulRainbow]

<snip> doesn't hold a candle to the Orwell in terms of possible places to go for a day sail.

That's my take on it

Peter

Couldn't agree more Peter. Keeping the OPs boat anywhere on the Orwell gives him the sheltered river sailing that he wants, both on the Orwell or the Stour, one of those is almost always sailable and the Stour is very quiet. Should he fancy a short trip along the coast, the Deben and Walton Backwaters are within easy reach.

 

[NealB]

The OP might find it useful to look at the charts, here:

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/east-coast/

I learned to sail on the Crouch, with my Dad, in the 1960's, when we were based at Hullbridge (Dad had a beautifully converted 32 foot Naval Cutter, which eventually took the family all around the south east coast and near continent: I had an ancient Heron dinghy which took me on many local (mis)adventures).

So I love the Crouch, for largely sentimental reasons!

I agree with Peter, however, that the Orwell and Stour would have been even better places to learn.

Enjoy!!

 

[Kukri]

And how about river Crouch, is it good for sailing, considering I don't want to leave it and sail on open sea?

Yes, the Crouch is almost ideal if you simply want to sail on it. It has deep water and banks which - unlike the Suffolk rivers - have almost no trees on them, giving you a nice steady breeze in most conditions. It has excellent facilities and is handy for London.

 

[Kukri]

Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertised on the nameboards at Cambridge station

That is because Cambridge University expects you to know where and what it is, rather like a Pall Mall club.

And, tbh, I doubt if anyone ever got to Cambridge by train without knowing of the University. Fifty years ago there were always a number of American tourists asking "where the University was"; today there are always a number of Chinese tourists asking the same question.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That is because Cambridge University expects you to know where and what it is, rather like a Pall Mall club.

And, tbh, I doubt if anyone ever got to Cambridge by train without knowing of the University. Fifty years ago there were always a number of American tourists asking "where the University was"; today there are always a number of Chinese tourists asking the same question.

But the "Home of Anglia Ruskin University" on the nameboards at the Railway station is the choice of Network Rail, I think! But your point is taken; Cambridge IS the University to a much higher degree than Oxford. Take away the University and its associated spin-off industries, and there would be a minor market town left. Take the University away from Oxford, and you're still left with a major manufacturing centre that is independent of the University.

And yes, tourists have asked to "see the University" as long as I can remember - the advice I got (which is still useful!) was to find out whther they were tourists, or had business with the University. In the former case, Kings College Chapel did the business; in the latter the Old Schools, or if more detailed questioning gave clues, to the relevant department or college.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi again Slawosz,

I've looked back at your first post on this thread and see that my earlier post didn't respond to your more specific needs. I had in mind the needs of the OP living somewhere in Cambridgeshire. For the size of boat you're considering, the Crouch is still a fair choice for a London dweller, although not so good for family living In Cambs. While I agree with Antartic Pilot, that sea room is the first thing a more experienced sailor looks for when things go wrong - I equally understand that "within sight of land" brings a lot of comfort for beginners. To br fair, the land up our Crouch ditch is mostly soft mud, which is the kindest sort to run aground on - perhaps the biggest hazard if you run up the beach is being mauled by a sheep on the river wall. South Woodham, Fambridge and Burnham are all fairly easily accessible from London and all have berthing for yachts of the size you are considering. Fambridge and Burnham also have railway stations in walking distance from the river.

Depending on your circumstances, you may wish tothink hard about a drying berth. The significant downside is that you can't come and go when you want, but must wait for the tide, and get back before the tide recedes. That's fine for those of us who are masters of our own time, but not so good if you are in employment and limited to sailing at weekends and a couple of weeks in the summer. In these circumstances, a swinging mooring or a marina berth (depending how deep your pocket) enables much greater use of the boat.

Lastly, on the Blackwater, not much sailing to be done above Northey Island at low water, and it needs some care above Osea, even in a small yacht.

Peter

 

[slawosz]

Yes, the Crouch is almost ideal if you simply want to sail on it. It has deep water and banks which - unlike the Suffolk rivers - have almost no trees on them, giving you a nice steady breeze in most conditions. It has excellent facilities and is handy for London.

Well, this is something I wanted to hear I will probably be there tomorrow to see some boat for sale, so will be able to see how this looks like and actually ask.
I took a look into maps and it seems sailable on low tide, which is good for me. How many 'crazy' speed boats are there?

 

[Tam Lin]

Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertized on the nameboards at Cambridge stat

Just to take this thread drift a bit further, Anglia Ruskin has many roots. I went to Brentwood College of Education which became the Chelmer Institute which in turn became the Essex Institute which in turn became Anglia Ruskin Polytechnic. For most of this time I walked in through the same door! Oh yes, the Chelmsford Tec. was involved somewhere too!

Getting back on track, I used to day sail on the Crouch, hence my previous remark, much more interesting on the Blackwater with more places to go. Have you looked at Marconi Sailing Club? Cheap drying moorings there.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Just to take this thread drift a bit further, Anglia Ruskin has many roots. I went to Brentwood College of Education which became the Chelmer Institute which in turn became the Essex Institute which in turn became Anglia Ruskin Polytechnic. For most of this time I walked in through the same door! Oh yes, the Chelmsford Tec. was involved somewhere too!

Indeed - in fact Anglia Ruskin is a multi-campus University with campuses in Cambridge, Chelmsford, London and Peterborough. But the thread drift originated in someone stating that no University in Cambridge had its origins in a Polytechnic; of course the Cambridge campus of Anglia Ruskin originated in CCAT. And on the same level, even one college of the University of Cambridge (Homerton) has its origins as a teacher training college, a body of similar status to a Polytechnic.

 

[Kukri]

Well, this is something I wanted to hear I will probably be there tomorrow to see some boat for sale, so will be able to see how this looks like and actually ask.
I took a look into maps and it seems sailable on low tide, which is good for me. How many 'crazy' speed boats are there?

Hi and good hunting. I am not up to date on the speedboat/jetski issue but Peter Wright may be. I have always had the impression that the Crouch is a well run river.