looking for part-owner ....

[ChattingLil]

Friends - looking for some advice. Life moves on and I don't think I'm going to have as much time or energy for Artemis as I thought. Been thinking about finding someone who might like part-ownership of her. I'm considering something like:

On offer:
Half share of Achilles 24 - available at least every other weekend all year round.
All kitted out for day or weekend sailing (hardier souls will go for longer, but not me). Bring own sleeping bag and pillow cases.
Echo sounder and log (but no chart plotter for gps as I bring that with me from Ocean Lady)
Freshly anti-fouled for this season and due to be repaired (after she toppled over before xmas) at BYC in the next fortnight.
Portapotti

Wanted:
Notional fee for purchase of share to show commitment - negotiable
Half share of insurance costs
Pay for the petrol you use and top up of kitty for consumables
Half share of berthing costs (Fambridge swinging mooring)
Half share of any work effort needed iro maintenance, cleaning, polishing, painting, etc.


SO, advice wanted is: Is this a good idea? Or more trouble than it's worth? Does it sound like a reasonable prospect?

 

[stuey_two]

A sharing scheme worked very well for me for 5 years, we each used the boat independently but also sailed together sometimes
Tthe other party always said he would stop sailing at 70 as he would be too old to sail any more (???) and that is what happened - at 70 he wanted out.
We had bought the boat on a 50/50 basis so it had to be sold - in the end we agreed a current value and I bought out his share at half of tha agreed value.
If I could make a similar arrangement again, I would be very tempted.

 

[bedouin]

I think the "half share of any work effort needed" is a bit tricky. Both determining what work is required and what work you do yourself as opposed to paying someone else to do it for you.

 

[ChattingLil]

I think the "half share of any work effort needed" is a bit tricky. Both determining what work is required and what work you do yourself as opposed to paying someone else to do it for you.

I think anyone serioulsy interested in part-owning an A24 will not be interested in paying someone else to do the work! It's hardly worth the cost, let alone the effort! BUt I agree that I would need to find a like-minded soul to make it work.

fwiw - I scraped, sanded and antifouled x 2 coats on Saturday in just a few hours. The only work that is really needed is a fresh paint job and a cleaning and occasional servicing and greasing of some parts (furling gear and winches). She's a very simple boat, no inboard engine, no toilet, only 1 through hull-fitting (log), no pluming, one battery for domestics with a small solar panel to keep it topped up. It's an extraordinarly cheap way of being able to have some low key simple sailing on the Crouch and nearby waters.

 

[ex-Gladys]

There's some good info on the RYA website (if you are a member) - having had a quick scan, it would be worth the £40ish membership to get hold of the document templates....

 

[xyachtdave]

I had (boat now for sale.....) a 25% share of a J80. As there was no cruising gear to worry about - tea/coffee, basic provisions, fuel, bedding, any water in the tank etc, you would think it would be easy to share.

To be honest it was a bit of disaster. One owner decided he wasn't doing maintenance because his free time was worth more than anti fouling etc, one bought shares in another boat and decided he wasn't paying for anything anymore, the third owner had a habit of shouting at the second when on the boat and I couldn't commit to the various race series as we have our own boat.

There was a honeymoon period for about one season where it was fun.

It all sounded great at the beginning and does obviously work for some people but never again for me!

Edit to add - If you need a formal contract, I'm not sure you're involved with the right people. Nice to have some legal paperwork but do you really want to sue someone that isn't pulling their weight at maintenance time??

 

[DavidofMersea]

If you need a formal contract, I'm not sure you're involved with the right people. Nice to have some legal paperwork but do you really want to sue someone that isn't pulling their weight at maintenance time??

I think it is important to have at least a semi formal written agreement. You both know what you think you have agreed, but without it written down can you be sure you both have the same ideas?

For example a friend of mine rented his house to a friend of his, and both thought the other was going to pay the rates. When the rates bill came in and they argued about it, all sorts of other grievances came up, and they are no longer friends

 

[bedouin]

Probably best to forget about shared ownership and just go for shared costs instead - makes it much easier to either party to walk away without a lot of hassle

 

[MoodySabre]

When I was up ladder polishing my boat a couple of weeks ago I thought that it wouldn't be many years before sole sailing in an Achilles would be a good idea. Easy to fix and cheap to own. What's not to like.

I think it would could work out ok to share with the right person. That's the key.

 

[pvb]

There's some good info on the RYA website (if you are a member) - having had a quick scan, it would be worth the £40ish membership to get hold of the document templates....

You don't need to be a member, just Google for it. The boat syndicate agreement, for example, is here - http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectio...ENT FOR THE SYNDICATE OWNERSHIP OF A BOAT.pdf

 

[Poignard]

I think the "half share of any work effort needed" is a bit tricky. Both determining what work is required and what work you do yourself as opposed to paying someone else to do it for you.

Yes - that's important. I once shared a glider with another man and he and his father really enjoyed doing maintenance on the glider. The result was that I got slightly more hours flying but he was perfectly happy with what he did. Anything that needed paying for was divided 50:50.

The thing is not to rush into partnership until you know how you will get on with the other party. (Same as marriage, I suppose!)

 

[Bru]

Sounds like a good plan provided you dot the i's and cross the t's on an agreement which covers what is to happen and what isn't and how the parties back out if the agreement isn't working

I do think a carefully worded written agreement is absolutely necessary even between friends - otherwise you might not remain friends by the end

(I've seen shared ownership and co-operative ownership setups work and I've seen them go badly wrong and nearly always the latter because the agreement wasn't clearly set out)

Brigantia and now Erbas are co-owned by Jane and I with a friend of long standing whom I trust absolutely and have worked with for a decade or so on other projects but never the less everything is clearly stated in black and white in a written agreement

Bear in mind it might not be the person you enter into the agreement with that you end up dealing with - it could be their executor or the official receiver or even the bailiffs.

 

[FullCircle]

Sounds like a good plan provided you dot the i's and cross the t's on an agreement which covers what is to happen and what isn't and how the parties back out if the agreement isn't working

I do think a carefully worded written agreement is absolutely necessary even between friends - otherwise you might not remain friends by the end

(I've seen shared ownership and co-operative ownership setups work and I've seen them go badly wrong and nearly always the latter because the agreement wasn't clearly set out)

Brigantia and now Erbas are co-owned by Jane and I with a friend of long standing whom I trust absolutely and have worked with for a decade or so on other projects but never the less everything is clearly stated in black and white in a written agreement

Bear in mind it might not be the person you enter into the agreement with that you end up dealing with - it could be their executor or the official receiver or even the bailiffs.

A wise Erbas speaks wisely.