Looking for first (in a long time!) boat. Advice please. :)

[Marcus1971]

Mine is the S24. It is a little confusing because the 240 came first, Then the S24, Then the S23 then the S25.

240 and S24 are essentially the same separated only by time and possible engine installed

S23 and S25 are the same separated by time only and different engine installs. Most have KAD32 which is the best engine to have.

Mine is the one in the First Pic below an S24 with KAD32

View attachment 127937


The Pic below is a typical S23/S25. Pic from the internetView attachment 127938

Both nice looking boats. I suppose my only (uneducated) concern is the capability of the KAD32. Most times it will just be 2 adults and 1 or 2 kids. Occasionally it could be as much as 4 adults and one youngster on board. I’m not looking for a rocket ship by any means, but wouldn’t want a struggle to get up on the plane and stay there!

 

[Marcus1971]

I think any of these 240, S24, S23 and S25 will perform well and when I do get mine on the plane (*which is rare as I am on the Norfolk Broads) it performs very well. I cannot comment with 5 up and loaded but I think with the KAD32 it will get on the plane and once there will be fine.

As to fuel burn as I am on the Broads I use so little I cant remember the last time I put some in.

I have many boats and so many people worry about fuel burn. The truth is that provided you are at the size we are talking about yest they use a lot but it is so infrequent that it is not somthing to worry about.

The Boat I use the most is a 4.5 m rib with 60 hp 2 Stroke and generally for a Day out the most I would use in fuel and oil is £40. My view is that for a day out for 2 people this is nothing to be honest

Haha. Just read this after posting my last question about engine capability! Thanks. Marcus

 

[paradave]

I think any of these 240, S24, S23 and S25 will perform well and when I do get mine on the plane (*which is rare as I am on the Norfolk Broads) it performs very well. I cannot comment with 5 up and loaded but I think with the KAD32 it will get on the plane and once there will be fine.

As to fuel burn as I am on the Broads I use so little I cant remember the last time I put some in.

I have many boats and so many people worry about fuel burn. The truth is that provided you are at the size we are talking about yest they use a lot but it is so infrequent that it is not somthing to worry about.

The Boat I use the most is a 4.5 m rib with 60 hp 2 Stroke and generally for a Day out the most I would use in fuel and oil is £40. My view is that for a day out for 2 people this is nothing to be honest

I don’t think you should be so dismissive of fuel costs- its definitely our 2nd biggest cost after mooring fees and is probably 1500-2k pa.But then we use our boat a fair bit at sea.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I don’t think you should be so dismissive of fuel costs- its definitely our 2nd biggest cost after mooring fees and is probably 1500-2k pa.But then we use our boat a fair bit at sea.

I agree it is a significant cost but you must think of it as Extra over as you will always use some sort of fuel unless of course you are like those weird people who let the wind blow them about. Also worth remembering that Diesel repairs are offten more than petrol engine repairs. On balance I think Diesel is better

 

[jakew009]

I don’t think you should be so dismissive of fuel costs- its definitely our 2nd biggest cost after mooring fees and is probably 1500-2k pa.But then we use our boat a fair bit at sea.

On the assumption your boat averages about 15l/hour, that would suggest your doing circa 130 hours per year.

Most boats don’t do anything even remotely close to that - circa 30 hours per year would be more common. Hence the suggestion that fuel costs for most people are just a total irrelevance compared to all the other costs.

 

[paradave]

On the assumption your boat averages about 15l/hour, that would suggest your doing circa 130 hours per year.

Most boats don’t do anything even remotely close to that - circa 30 hours per year would be more common. Hence the suggestion that fuel costs for most people are just a total irrelevance compared to all the other costs.

Yup, just under - roughly 110 hours each for the last two years. And you’re correct, we bought ours at 600 hours - 15 years old! I‘d find it difficult to justify if we used it as little as 30 Although obviously some people have anchorages and bays v v close to home. However, we don’t know the OP’s intended use so still shouldn’t gloss over economy/running costs.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Yup, just under - roughly 110 hours each for the last two years. And you’re correct, we bought ours at 600 hours - 15 years old! I‘d find it difficult to justify if we used it as little as 30 Although obviously some people have anchorages and bays v v close to home. However, we don’t know the OP’s intended use so still shouldn’t gloss over economy/running costs.

Why do you have to justify it and who to. You bought it it is yours you should use it when and if you want to. Not force it.

 

[paradave]

Why do you have to justify it and who to. You bought it it is yours you should use it when and if you want to. Not force it.

I don’t force it at all, I love using my boat and have never felt I *have* to use it.
However I could not justify a large financial outlay with pricey ongoing mooring costs for 30 hours use a year. I hope thats clearer for you.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I don’t force it at all, I love using my boat and have never felt I *have* to use it.
However I could not justify a large financial outlay with pricey ongoing mooring costs for 30 hours use a year. I hope thats clearer for you.

It is indeed clear. Many People do though and my view is simple. I never buy anything unless I have the money and can afford it and once bought that money has gone. It is not an investment, It is not money held in a different form it is gone in my world. If I do ever sell it and get £1 that is £1 I am better off. Man Maths perhaps but it helps in the Not having to justify it stakes. Never working out or worse adding up the cost is also wise unless you are a spreadsheet sort of a person who like that sort of thing.

I remember years ago when I opened a new office and bought a round of drinks for 50 people. I just gave my Secretary my wallet and asked her to pay from it. I never did know how much that one cost and I was a lot happier for it.

 

[Marcus1971]

Yup, just under - roughly 110 hours each for the last two years. And you’re correct, we bought ours at 600 hours - 15 years old! I‘d find it difficult to justify if we used it as little as 30 Although obviously some people have anchorages and bays v v close to home. However, we don’t know the OP’s intended use so still shouldn’t gloss over economy/running costs.

If it helps the discussion, my intentions are essentially to go out for a day (every weekend the weather permits), probably an hour or so up the coast to find a nice anchorage to spend some time swimming and soaking up the environment before returning……..however (and this is why I’m particularly interested in fuel costs), we have family on the Isle of Wight, which is around 50-60 miles from Weymouth. I would like to be able to make that trip (ideally once a month/6 weeks) without crying too much at the fuel costs. When I did some rough back of a fag packed calculations with a petrol engined boat, it came out to around £350 in fuel and to be honest that would make me think twice (or three times about making the trip) and would probably make it a once per year deal. If a diesel boat would halve that, then it becomes doable!
Still learning and making decisions, but those are my plans/hopes.

 

[NBs]

Hi,

Considering the budget, I would also look forward to the life cycle cost, I would see a direct axle drive better than a stern drive which can often be a costly hassle. This link could have the potential you are looking for a boat that meets the young, hours of diesel 600, Nimbus also makes good axle line boats, but currently only sells over your budget.

Fuel consuptions is about full throtle 20 litres/hours and 70% load about 15 litres/hour maybe about 20kn (just my rough estimate of speed.)

2008 Beneteau Antares 600 HB | Boatshop24 UK

NBs

 

[Marcus1971]

Hi,

Considering the budget, I would also look forward to the life cycle cost, I would see a direct axle drive better than a stern drive which can often be a costly hassle. This link could have the potential you are looking for a boat that meets the young, hours of diesel 600, Nimbus also makes good axle line boats, but currently only sells over your budget.

Fuel consuptions is about full throtle 20 litres/hours and 70% load about 15 litres/hour maybe about 20kn (just my rough estimate of speed.)

2008 Beneteau Antares 600 HB | Boatshop24 UK

NBs

Hi NBs,
Not a bad looking boat. Advert says 12kn cruise and 17Kn max. Also looks a little on the small side. Not sure how that would cope with 5 on board……and yes, over budget unfortunately, although a low offer may be considered, but in todays market I doubt it!
Thanks. Marcus

 

[gordmac]

There is a website that gives fuel burn estimates for a wide selection of engines at various speeds, can't recall what it is though.

 

[LBRodders]

If it helps the discussion, my intentions are essentially to go out for a day (every weekend the weather permits), probably an hour or so up the coast to find a nice anchorage to spend some time swimming and soaking up the environment before returning……..however (and this is why I’m particularly interested in fuel costs), we have family on the Isle of Wight, which is around 50-60 miles from Weymouth. I would like to be able to make that trip (ideally once a month/6 weeks) without crying too much at the fuel costs. When I did some rough back of a fag packed calculations with a petrol engined boat, it came out to around £350 in fuel and to be honest that would make me think twice (or three times about making the trip) and would probably make it a once per year deal. If a diesel boat would halve that, then it becomes doable!
Still learning and making decisions, but those are my plans/hopes.

Marcus, a few points to throw into the mix.

Weymouth to the IOW is no cake walk. Have you done this in a boat before, particularly an 8m boat? I don't think the trip costs are an issue here but finding a boat that will do that in budget. I like a challenge, but wouldn't want to do that trip in an S23/24 boat with 170hp under the bonnet and 5 people on board. They may want to get the ferry back!

The difference between a 7m boat and an 8m boat is night and day. On paper they seem to tick the same boxes, but its a paper magic trick. Get on board a few and you will see. If you have the opportunity to go to sea on a few, do so. You gain far more than just an extra metre.
As mentioned above, I think you will notice quickly 5 is tight on an 8m boat. Bar a half day river estuary plod, or the perfect weather day a 7m is not going to do the job. From Weymouth, these are not an option.

In your budget and the 8m boat market, the petrol / diesel shouldn't be in your must have list. Additional cost of diesel servicing will probably put running costs on par [depending on use obviously]. The key for you [in this budget], is a good petrol boat beats a bad diesel boat all day long [and vice versa]. You will find that locating a good boat is challenging enough.

I think you should write down your wishes from a boat and then prioritise them. If you have a list of 10 things, concentrate on the top 3/4, because that's probably realistic in what is achievable.

 

[Marcus1971]

Marcus, a few points to throw into the mix.

Weymouth to the IOW is no cake walk. Have you done this in a boat before, particularly an 8m boat? I don't think the trip costs are an issue here but finding a boat that will do that in budget. I like a challenge, but wouldn't want to do that trip in an S23/24 boat with 170hp under the bonnet and 5 people on board. They may want to get the ferry back!

The difference between a 7m boat and an 8m boat is night and day. On paper they seem to tick the same boxes, but its a paper magic trick. Get on board a few and you will see. If you have the opportunity to go to sea on a few, do so. You gain far more than just an extra metre.
As mentioned above, I think you will notice quickly 5 is tight on an 8m boat. Bar a half day river estuary plod, or the perfect weather day a 7m is not going to do the job. From Weymouth, these are not an option.

In your budget and the 8m boat market, the petrol / diesel shouldn't be in your must have list. Additional cost of diesel servicing will probably put running costs on par [depending on use obviously]. The key for you [in this budget], is a good petrol boat beats a bad diesel boat all day long [and vice versa]. You will find that locating a good boat is challenging enough.

I think you should write down your wishes from a boat and then prioritise them. If you have a list of 10 things, concentrate on the top 3/4, because that's probably realistic in what is achievable.

Hi Neil,
All points noted. I haven’t done the Weymouth to IOW trip, but perhaps wrongly assumed that hugging the coast up then hopping across wouldn’t be a significant challenge, obviously weather permitting!
I’m still in the information gathering phase of my search at present and do understand that there will be compromises with any boat that I end up with. I’m certainly not set on Petrol vs Diesel or on type or age of boat currently. I’m digging around to see what my options are that minimise compromise as far as possible and I’m getting there slowly!
I think, as you mentioned, availability will be a big factor when I’m ready to buy (fingers crossed in the next 6 weeks).

 

[LBRodders]

Hi Neil,
All points noted. I haven’t done the Weymouth to IOW trip, but perhaps wrongly assumed that hugging the coast up then hopping across wouldn’t be a significant challenge, obviously weather permitting!
I’m still in the information gathering phase of my search at present and do understand that there will be compromises with any boat that I end up with. I’m certainly not set on Petrol vs Diesel or on type or age of boat currently. I’m digging around to see what my options are that minimise compromise as far as possible and I’m getting there slowly!
I think, as you mentioned, availability will be a big factor when I’m ready to buy (fingers crossed in the next 6 weeks).

Whilst that is a strategy, there is more to take into account than just being a few hundred metres offshore.

A 100-120mile round trip is not a day out affair, particularly in this category. There are some big tides that sweep in and out of the Solent so careful route planning will be required that will also take into account weather / wind etc.

I doubt many boats regularly make this trip to/from Weymouth. I am pretty confident no 7m boats make this trip, unless they are high performance RIBs and then it'd be white knuckle territory.

I have done some Solent time based out of Gosport, but years ago. Hopefully a Solent/Weymouth based forumite will be along to chip in.

All good adventurous fun though! ?

 

[colhel]

I've done the trip a few times and IMHO it's not a trip you want to make without usual planning. Wind and tide can make the trip either extremely enjoyable or quite challenging. Not undoable in a 7 metre boat but your timetable will be based on wind and tide. Hugging the coastline won't necessarily make things easier. In our 10m single engine diesel boat, Cowes to Weymouth is about 4 hrs at 14 knots depending on tide and about 2 litres to the mile.

 

[chillee]

Re fuel burn this conversation might be useful
25ft boats with single diesel.
AD31P fuel consumption

Ad31 is basically a Kad32 without the supercharger.
So does not have the same grunt to get on the plane, and probably a few horses short of the KAD32 once up and running as well.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Weymouth to IOW is perfectly doable in a 7m cruiser, but you will need the right weather and you will want to work with the tides. Basically you can’t just go when it’s convenient to you. There is also the very real danger of a change in the weather that is not forecast, making the return trip horrible or even unmanageable.

As for fuel costs, a single sterndrive boat will give you the best mpg if you want to go above displacement speeds. A 7-8m boat with a single diesel sterndrive will return 4-5mpg, making your 110nm round trip around £120 at today’s red diesel prices. A twin sterndrive boat (2-3 mpg) will effectively double the cost even though running at the same speed. A twin shaft drive boat will return 1-2mpg, so you are looking at getting on for £400 for the same trip. These figures are approx, but they won’t be far out.

the only way to do it cheaper is with a full displacement boat, but then you are limited to 6-10 knots depending on hull length.

 

[Marcus1971]

Ok. I think my head is in a spin! I think I’m further away from any kind of decision than when I started! Maybe it’s going to be a case of seeing what boats are available, flip a coin a few times and go with heads! It seems that pretty much anything on the market at the size I’ve been considering and within budget will manage up to 5 (less for most trips) on board for short coastal journeys, which is my main priority.
Some may be faster than others (I’m not too fussed about speed, but would like to be able to plane rather than chug!)
Some will cost more in fuel than others (but for short coastal journeys, the difference in annual fuel costs probably isn’t that significant)
Once I’ve figured out the boats capabilities, my capabilities and the boats fuel burn/cost I can plan any longer trips around those.