Looking for a sailboat to fit these criteria

[skipmac]

Buizen 40 fits all those boxes

Had never heard of the Buizen before but what a nice boat. Draft a little deeper than I would like but the interior and layout look amazing. Also the ones I see for sale are a bit over the budget but definitely one to watch.

 

[skipmac]

Marginally higher component count and you are locked into the saildrive maker for parts, but they are no more prone to failure than any other gearbox. The only catastrophic failure unique to them is diaphragm failure but I've never read about one failing and saildrives must have been fitted to tens of thousands of boats over 5 decades. What I am aware of is people changing diaphragms either at the manufacturer's recommended or some other arbitrary interval and finding that however cosmetically ropey the outer diaphragm may be the inner is invariably fine. Other than changing the anode and lube oil as needed there is no maintenance, given there isn't a cutless bearing or stern gland to faff around with arguably there is less maintenance.

Nauticat 42 here jryachts.com/yachts-for-sale/nauticat-42-sold/1160941 The broker, John specialises in this sort of boat - but stock is slim at the moment. Also worth looking at this broker Yachts for sale | De Valk Yacht broker , probably the biggest in up market boats in Europe.

Saildrives are actually fitted to the majority if new production boats (and many semi custom) up to about 46' in Europe and have been for some years. However, most of the boats you will be looking at, as well as being older designs are built in small volumes, have engine HP requirements greater than saildrives could handle and have hull forms that do not lend themselves easily to saildrives. However newer designs such as the Sirius as well as most HRs have saildrives particularly as the latest drives will handle up to 100HP.

OK, I confess my objections to saildrives are diminishing but still, very subjectively, I seem to see a lot more questions and complaints about saildrives on the forums that shaft drives and would wager that there area LOT more boats on the water with a straight shaft and a higher percentage of older boats as well where one would expect more problems due to age and hours.

And what about the risk of damage. I would guess that a saildrive would be more susceptible to serious damage if one hit some kind of floating debris than a straight shaft. And if there is damage or some catastrophic failure with a shaft you dive in and cram stuff around the shaft to reduce the leak. With a saildrive, can you do that?

 

[skipmac]

Nauticat 42 here jryachts.com/yachts-for-sale/nauticat-42-sold/1160941 The broker, John specialises in this sort of boat - but stock is slim at the moment. Also worth looking at this broker Yachts for sale | De Valk Yacht broker , probably the biggest in up market boats in Europe.

Thanks for the referrals. Will check them out. FYI I contacted a couple of brokers in the US that were highly recommended by previous customers and got little more than their monthly ad sheet. Even after giving them my list and budget and assurance that I'm ready to buy when the right boat comes along. Pretty frustrating.

 

[penfold]

In europe at any rate I'd say the majority of yachts built in the last 30 years have saildrives; they're easier and quicker to install, so builders fit them.

 

[shan]

As a slightly different solution, have you considered adding shade cloth sides to a Bimini? This is probably not the best example as the sides don't go down enough but when sailing in Greece, we were next a live aboard couple on the Town quay, that had full side shades. You could see through them and they provided more shade.




Another example:

 

[skipmac]

In europe at any rate I'd say the majority of yachts built in the last 30 years have saildrives; they're easier and quicker to install, so builders fit them.

And that I think is one major "advantage" to saildrives. No need to deal with fussy alignment issues, no cutlass bearing, sterntube, etc. Similar to how a lot of new cars are built IE for ease of manufacture with no thought at all to access and maintenance.

Saildrives are generally more efficient as the line of the prop can be perfectly horizontal unlike shaft drives that are almost always at an angle.

 

[Bodach na mara]

And that I think is one major "advantage" to saildrives. No need to deal with fussy alignment issues, no cutlass bearing, sterntube, etc. Similar to how a lot of new cars are built IE for ease of manufacture with no thought at all to access and maintenance.

Saildrives are generally more efficient as the line of the prop can be perfectly horizontal unlike shaft drives that are almost always at an angle.

I agree with all of that. I heard the first point of view from a well known surveyor, designer and writer when he surveyed my aging yacht in 2007. He assured me that in his opinion a 32 year old boat was a better bet than a new one, and he cited the bit in an advertising video from a well known German boat builders in which they boasted that the engine could be installed in 15 minutes. He thought that indicated a lack of care and was nothing to boast about.
On the second point the increase in efficiency will be small as the down angle is small. The fractional reduction in thrust is the cosine of the angle and cos(8 degrees) is 0.99
However I think that boats with sterndrives manoeuvre between than those with shaft drives, especially in reverse.

 

[Schuss39]

If you find the Nauticat 42's mast is too long/tall. Have a look at the Nauticat 39. A recent one is for sale on this link. Or look on the "For Sale" page of the Nautical Association UK.

NAUTICAT 39 FOR SALE

A Nauticat 39, similar age to this, has just recently completed the ARC.
No saildrive on the yanmar engine but a shaft.
You could always remove the teak and fit the more modern plastic type!

 

[skipmac]

I agree with all of that. I heard the first point of view from a well known surveyor, designer and writer when he surveyed my aging yacht in 2007. He assured me that in his opinion a 32 year old boat was a better bet than a new one, and he cited the bit in an advertising video from a well known German boat builders in which they boasted that the engine could be installed in 15 minutes. He thought that indicated a lack of care and was nothing to boast about.
On the second point the increase in efficiency will be small as the down angle is small. The fractional reduction in thrust is the cosine of the angle and cos(8 degrees) is 0.99
However I think that boats with sterndrives manoeuvre between than those with shaft drives, especially in reverse.

Was not aware of the mathmatical relationship between angle and efficiency but your math kind of eliminates one of the negatives to shaft drives. I will say that based on a couple of boats I've owned and casual observations around the boat yard that the difference based on your cos formula is just a bit less. I see plenty of props at angles of 10-15 degrees or more to horizontal but even at 20 degrees that would still be almost 94% so in the overall scheme of things almost negligible.

Though it has ben alluded to but not specifically mentioned, for shaft drives, KISS. Having cruised in remote locations and occasionally doing jury rigged repairs to keep the boat going or to have repairs done in third world ports with limited and/or primitive resources I firmly subscribe to the KISS. If you cruise exclusively in areas where there's a Yanmar dealer and well equiped boat yard in every port and you have plenty of dosh in the maintenance and repair account for the rainy days then I see fewer objections to saildrives.

 

[Tranona]

and he cited the bit in an advertising video from a well known German boat builders in which they boasted that the engine could be installed in 15 minutes. He thought that indicated a lack of care and was nothing to boast about.

What an odd thing to say. Yes is did take Bavaria only 15 minutes to drop the engine in simply because it came from Volvo fully assembled and tested and the bed bonded into the hull had all the holes for the mounts and the diaphragm flange accurately located. So no chance of anything going wrong. If you have seen as many appallingly installed conventional drive trains in both original installations and re-engine jobs as I have you will know why I was so happy both my Bavarias had "15 minute" saildrive installations.

 

[Bodach na mara]

To drop an engine attached to saildrive gearbox and drive and drop in the bolts I can understand but the installer has still to attach the nuts, tighten them to the specified torque, connect the fuel feed and return, bleed the system, connect the exhaust, connect the feed for cooling water and deal with the outgoing water etc. etc. And it was implied that this would all be done in 15 minutes. Of course it would be easier as at the time of installation the structures above the engine are not yet installed and the interior panels have not arrived from the prefabricated kitchen factory where they are being made. Of course when the owner needs to carry out maintenance or repair operations things are a bit more awkward.
Bavaria are not alone in this. I recently needed to remove the VP engine installed by Westerly when my boat was built. There is no way of removing it from the top as it is under the fuel tank and cockpit moulding. I resorted to getting a professional to do the job. And I noticed in time that the preferred VP D1 30 replacement had its oil filter on the side of the engine that is inaccessible once it is installed! The Beta 30 that was installed instead is not without its own problems as can be seen discussed in other threads.

 

[penfold]

Cooling water comes in through the leg, on VP saildrives at any rate. All those things are dealt with by having production engineers plan stuff rather than leaving it to random chance. Sometimes that means a job is a bear to do 10 years later, but Bavaria etc don't care very much about that.

 

[Stemar]

I haven't forgotten the review of a boat with a saildrive, where the engine/saildrive was dropped in and the lid installed afterwards. Changing the SD seals, a job to be done every seven years, started with an angle grinder and went downhill from there. The reviewer contacted the importer whose response was "Our owners don't keep the boats that long, so it isn't a problem" Can't remember the maker, possibly it wasn't specified, but I wouldn't want one of their boats, and it's something I'd investigate on any boat with one.

That aside, the prop tends to be some way from the rudder, which means you don't get the quick turning response to a blast of ahead on full rudder. OTOH. a friend's boat with a saildrive did, as mentioned above, behave impeccably astern, though I suspect that had more to do with the skinny keel and big spade rudder than the saildrive.

 

[E39mad]

Seastream 43 will fit your budget.

If a Southerly 42 is too expensive look at the earlier Rob Humphreys designed 135 which is 44 feet. Ballasted swing keel ideal for Florida The Bahamas and ICW.

 

[rotrax]

You are in the USA. Your wish list in the OP puts my choice of vessel, the Island Packet SP Cruiser, up there.

The pilothouse has a huge area of glass that would need UV shielding. Oceanaire do blinds or as First Mate has done, buy the material and do it yourself.

Go and look at one. We live on ours for at least five months every year.

Not wanting a Motorsailer cuts your options dramatically. We did not want one either but the columns we made with 'nice to haves' and 'must haves' led us to where we are. Sails far better with the optional powered furling Code Zero/Reacher in light winds or downwind. Ideal for the ICW too, shallow draught, short mast.

As you are aware - or are becoming aware - all sailing boats are a compromise. You must make the best one you can.

Good Luck.

 

[Tranona]

To drop an engine attached to saildrive gearbox and drive and drop in the bolts I can understand but the installer has still to attach the nuts, tighten them to the specified torque, connect the fuel feed and return, bleed the system, connect the exhaust, connect the feed for cooling water and deal with the outgoing water etc. etc. And it was implied that this would all be done in 15 minutes. Of course it would be easier as at the time of installation the structures above the engine are not yet installed and the interior panels have not arrived from the prefabricated kitchen factory where they are being made. Of course when the owner needs to carry out maintenance or repair operations things are a bit more awkward.
Bavaria are not alone in this. I recently needed to remove the VP engine installed by Westerly when my boat was built. There is no way of removing it from the top as it is under the fuel tank and cockpit moulding. I resorted to getting a professional to do the job. And I noticed in time that the preferred VP D1 30 replacement had its oil filter on the side of the engine that is inaccessible once it is installed! The Beta 30 that was installed instead is not without its own problems as can be seen discussed in other threads.

In the early 2000s Bavaria were building over 2500 boats a year, almost all with Volvo saildrives so I suspect that they got to know how to do it pretty well. It is true that the engine unit goes into the hull before the furniture (which is actually made in house) is fitted, but that does not mean it cannot be lifted out easily if necessary - about 2 hours work in fact. Uncouple from the drive, slide the engine forward and lift it out through the hatch. No problem with the oil filter location as a large hatch in the aft cabin gives excellent access (and a matching hatch the other side for access to the starter motor). This is the difference between a design that is engineered for easy construction and subsequent maintenance compared with many older designs that were "made up" as they went along, and why charter companies love them.

I bought 2 new Bavarias, the first one for use as a charter boat. Both were delivered virtually fault free and and subsequently proved trouble free. The first (from 2000) did 7 years hard chartering and 3500 engine hours. The second was a 2015 bought as my retirement boat and was even better. Beautifully put together and in the 6 years I owned only 3 things needed work - exhaust muffler, Garmin electronics and Lewmar windlass. I spent much of my early career in and around the boat building industry and it is not surprising it did not survive in the UK given the standard of engineering and particularly production processes. Your experience with your Westerly is a good example and very different from experiences with modern boats like Bavarias. this bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php makes interesting reading to get a flavour of what the issues are in owning a Bavaria, particularly the breakdown survey in the Help section.

 

[Airscrew]

Have a look at a Wauquiez PS.
40, 41, 47 should be in your price range.

Someone here suggested a cat, which is a great shout.

 

[Frogmogman]

How about a Beneteau Sense 43 ? Some quite original thinking went into the design, and the interior is lovely, fresh and airy.

Decent sailing performance too. Standard draft is 2m, but exists in a shoal draught version (which this one is).

2012 Beneteau Sense 43 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld