long range communications

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MAURICE

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Hi
I am in the process of finally going south to the med this year and then across to the carrib in 2014. Ive been looking into long range comms and am thinking about SSB or satellite. SSB seems a bit outdated and fiddly. and satellite a bit on the expensive side. Is there anything else i may have missed or something new on the market? For the med i expect i could get away with VHF and mobile phone.
Thanks
Maurice
 
You're correct in your assumptions. I get weather and email on my Crackberry, but an iPhone is better with the weather and nautical apps. I just prefer a keyboard.
There is a cheap route to SSB involving buying a secondhand Ham set. The basic course at your local ARC (amateur radio club) is easy enough. If you get a set w an integral antenna tuner it saves money again. Pm me for more info.
 
MAURICE said:
Hi
I am in the process of finally going south to the med this year and then across to the carrib in 2014. Ive been looking into long range comms and am thinking about SSB or satellite. SSB seems a bit outdated and fiddly. and satellite a bit on the expensive side. Is there anything else i may have missed or something new on the market? For the med i expect i could get away with VHF and mobile phone.
Thanks
Maurice
Click to expand...

Outside of VHF/GSM cover, it depends also on what type of communications you need, for voice/data you already have the main options, ssb/satphone; should you need just basic long range functions (like sending a position report, sending a precoded sms, exchanging some *short* email messages, etc), have a look at products like the Spot, or this newish Delorme thing. The number of allowed characters on the email size rules out any text bulletin request, no grib request, etc, so it's a really really *basic* email service.
Purchase price and functioning cost both significantly lower than sat phones.

http://www.findmespot.eu/en/

http://www.delorme.com/
 
Go get yourelf a decent SSB radio, ATM and whip aerial; get them installed by somebody who knows what they are doing and learn how to use it.

Most of the liveaboards we know all use SBB on a daily basis on an organised net or an adhoc net with friends. We are in touch with friends crossing to St Lucia on a daily basis relaying wx info and plotting their course etc. other friends are in Surinam and we talk to them every couple of days. Europe is a bit of dead hole for SSB but when you leave Europe you'll find it used all the time.

It may seem outdated to many who work in offices or are not doing long trips and spend thier lives on e-mail and the internet, but its reliable 24/7, 365 days a year and its cheap to talk on; people use it all the time, just not in Europe for some reason. Yes we do have Iridium as well, but its the SSB we use 99% of the time and if I had to choose between the two I'd choose the SSB.
 
During a recent circumnavigation I used both iridium and SSB. Although the cost of the Iridium phone was reasonable on eBay, it turned out to be very expensive to use for emails and we never used it for speech or web browsing. Although the airtime cost was accceptable at about $2 per min, It's the charges from the email provider that cost the money. As mentioned by Ariadne, SSB is used all the time outside Europe. You could buy a secondhand Ham set, as I did, from eBay. They can usually be easily, opened up, to transmit on the Marine bands so you won't need a Ham licence. If you know a Ham you might be able to get him to advise you (or you could send me a PM if you want me to help). To send emails through an SSB radio you will need a Pactor Modem hooked up to your PC. This is the expensive bit costing about £200, but then the Emails are virtually free. Good hunting!
 
I've posted this before when we've had these discussions:

It's not a choice between satellite or SSB. They do two quite different jobs. In short; SSB is for keeping in touch with other yachts, sat phones are for ringing home. Both can be used for emergency calls but I'm guessing a sat phone would be more reliable. I've got Falmouth CG as the first number in my speed dial. I'm not certain how long it would take to get a response to a Mayday on 2182 these days.
Satphone calls are not cheap, agreed, but I have done email and GRIBs on mine and providing you are not doing it too often it's not too expensive.
Have a look at mailasail.com as a service provider.
 
MAURICE said:
then across to the carrib in 2014
Thanks
Maurice
Click to expand...

Re email, if you have a spare year and cost is factor numer 1 in the decision, then I would study to get an amateur licence and callsign and buy a second hand amateur transceiver (good ones can be found for £4-500).
Add a couple of home made dipoles, the RMS Express software for Winmor and you have a station capable of exchanging emails at speeds between Pactor2 and Pactor 3 with no yearly fees for a total cost of £500ish, which is impossible to beat
Note you *must* have a valid amateur callsign for this service, Sailmail (the commercial equivalent of Winlink for email) is not offering connections through Winmor so far.
Pactor allows at slightly higher speed, but the modem is in the orbit of £1000, Pactor is available to both amateurs and non-amateur marine stations

I have a slightly more complex radio station on board than above, but all our email is exchanged through Winmor, without Pactor modem.
We have been the very first boat ever to use it in an Atlantic crossing last year, daily emails from weather bulletins, grib files, position reports... even medical assistance.

If any interest search for "Winmor" to have an idea.

BTW, I am about to buy a sat phone too, I think SSB and SatPhone are two rather different animals :)
 
JPSK mail or something like that, is what I'm told the Ham people use for e-mail/web browsing over MF/HF radio now. They don't seem to bother with clunky pactor modems anymore it's all PC based software now.

So if any Hams out there want to let us all know how to use this programe or whatever you guys use, and what we need to get the input and output mic levels sorted; we're all ears???

If you do want to down Iridium/Inmarsat route, do talk to Ed at mailasail.com he knows his stuff!
 
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oldvarnish said:
I'm not certain how long it would take to get a response to a Mayday on 2182 these days.
Click to expand...


Agree with what you say about "SSB + Satphone" rather than "ssb OR satphone"


Just for info, with an amateur radio, a few calls on 14300kHz is likely to get a nice number of immediate answers, though of course you would have radio enthusiasts on the other end rather than an MRCC, but with a phone call there might be a direct link. .
On the Maritime Mobile service net site (I think www.mmsn.com or .org) there are a number of accounts of rescues initiated through this type of link.
BTW, a few of those distress messages were sent by people having an "open" transceiver onboard but no amateur licence, it is of course illegal to transmit without a licence, but none of the unlicensed people having sent a mayday call on 14.3MHz have been prosecuted...



fair winds, (where are you now? )
 
Maurice,

Unless you have previous Ham radio experience have a look here:

www.hamsphere.com

It's a computer-based, fully functional Ham radio set up. I quote from their website:

"Virtual Ham Radio
Turn your PC into a powerful Ham Radio station.
No extra hardware needed, just your PC, a microphone, speakers and you are ready to call CQ on the virtual Ham Radio bands. Once you have installed this Ham Radio Software you will be able to communicate with thousands of Amateur Radio operators and radio enthusiasts from over 200 countries around the world. You can even use it without a Ham Radio License."

This will give you a starting insight into the SSB radio world from your home.
 
Ariadne said:
JPSK mail or something like that, is what I'm told the Ham people use for e-mail/web browsing over MF/HF radio now. They don't seem to bother with clunky pactor modems anymore it's all PC based software now.

So if any Hams out there want to let us all know how to use this programe or whatever you guys use, and what we need to get the input and output mic levels sorted; we're all ears???

If you do want to down Iridium/Inmarsat route, do talk to Ed at mailasail.com he knows his stuff!
Click to expand...

There is a system available to licensed hams which is software based and operates world wide in a similar way to Airmail etc. Th same system can also be used through the appropriate stations using Pactor which is faster.

I have worked mailboxes in Holland,Italy,USA and Switzerland at quite acceptable speeds sending and receiving e-mails. The system also responds to requests for weather forecasts and links position reports to APRS which means relatives can follow your progress on the internet.

http://www.winlink.org/
 
MAURICE said:
Thanks to all a lot to think about and read
Maurice
Click to expand...

Hi Maurice, just to add to the muddy waters.. :)

It's down to you. If it's just a one off across the Atlantic then back again in a few years then maybe renting a sat phone would be an option. Depends how much you feel the need to keep in touch on the way across. For weather you can get a ssb radio reciever for 40 quid ish which is ample. I went the sat phone route, but only because I thought it was a bit selfish knowing that relatives would worry not hearing anything for a few weeks while I was offshore. A spot tracker might do the job just as well. And a lot cheaper :)

Same with the ssb nets, down to you if you feel the need to keep in touch most of the time or are happy just to drift your way across and see what happens. Neither way is right or wrong, just a choice.

Sorry, that's not much help, is it. ;)
 
Hi, I agree with the several people who replied that it's more satellite "or" SSB

- Satellite Phones are "phones"... So we observe that users tend to use them like phones and as such they are excellent for emergency communications (easy to raise the correct people directly, and low inhibition to using them means they get used well before the situation becomes a "mayday"), also for person to person communications in general

- SSB is "radio" and as such excels at the things radio does well, basically it's a group communication mechanism, good for ship to ship.

Each have their pros and conns. Group communications are effective for boat to boat communications, but on the flip side we see increasing numbers of users very familiar with their mobile phones and less tolerant of learning to use radio effectively to talk to specific people (rather than just picking up the phone...)


For satellite phones you have two main options for an atlantic crossing:

- Iridium handheld units (95xx units). Although there are newer/older models, they are all basically the same and cost (new) roughly £800-1600. The difference in price is neatness of installation - the functionality is the same no matter which phone you buy. Speeds are fast enough for small text emails, and limited weather forecasts, eg small GRIB files and small synoptic charts. Calls are $1.50/min headline

- Inmarsat Fleetbroadband FB150 (or 250). Price goes up to just under £4K, but the performance goes up around 100x compared with an Iridium handheld... Also the running costs are nominally lower, with a much lower cost per MB and cost for voice calls ($0.76/min voice, $12/MB data) - so voice is about half the price, data about 1/5th the price


For SSB you are generally looking around £4K-6K for the equipment fully installed and the cost of your training to use the equipment. This gets you *voice* ship to ship. To access email over the SSB you will *additionally* need a PACTOR modem for another £600-800, plus access to some network which will relay your email data (eg Sailmail is most common at $250/year). Budget on spending a reasonable amount of time learning to use any of these solutions, but especially true of the PACTOR units (have a good read through the SailMail Primer quickstart guide which weighs in at around 200 pages and includes soldering instructions for hooking up your PACTOR to most radios...)

Also don't overlook the power budget for SSB. It's only significant on transmit, but for email use that means several 10s of amps for the minutes while you are transmitting.

Learn also about the limitations of SSB radio. It's a great system, but there are real limitations due to the way radio actually behaves. For example it's common for radios to struggle for range when in crowded marinas or anchorages where all the other masts in the area ground your signal. As such you may not be able to use SSB email in all locations, especially when not sailing. Also traveling in large groups (eg everyone tends to transit the Atlantic at about the same time) can mean that there are a lot of users queuing for the same scarce resource (ie the land stations)

Note another option for SSB is a *receive only* set, which is then just a few hundred £s and insignificant installation issues. This obviously won't let you talk to other yachts, nor send emails. However, it's inexpensive and gets you much of the value of listening in.


For any of these devices do not overlook the value of support and backup to get them working optimally. For SSB you go from a useless set to one that transmits around the world based on the quality of installation - if you buy from the cheapest guy you can find online, will you get the service you need to optimise the installation? Same also for satellite phones - there are several reviews in this thread stating they spent a bundle on call costs - is it a false economy to buy slightly cheaper and then spend that large incremental cost using the equipment suboptimally vs buying from a dealer who can train you on the best way to use the equipment and supply appropriate optimisation software to minimise call costs?

All of these devices are not that difficult to use, but they all fall under the heading of "unfamilar". And the one thing we consistently see is customers buying them far too late and not getting experienced in using them... At the very, very very latest buy 1 month before your first long distance trip - later than this and you tend to be learning to use some complicated "computery thing" at exactly the time you are busy getting ready to leave - it's rarely a successful recipe...

Ask around, take advice and buy in plenty of time. Don't overlook satellite because of cost (most of my customers spend around £40/month on average, ie roughly the same as many people spend on their cell phone bills)


Good luck and safe trip!
 
MailASail said:
For satellite phones you have two main options for an atlantic crossing:

- Iridium handheld units (95xx units). Although there are newer/older models, they are all basically the same and cost (new) roughly £800-1600. The difference in price is neatness of installation - the functionality is the same no matter which phone you buy. Speeds are fast enough for small text emails, and limited weather forecasts, eg small GRIB files and small synoptic charts. Calls are $1.50/min headline

- Inmarsat Fleetbroadband FB150 (or 250). Price goes up to just under £4K, but the performance goes up around 100x compared with an Iridium handheld... Also the running costs are nominally lower, with a much lower cost per MB and cost for voice calls ($0.76/min voice, $12/MB data) - so voice is about half the price, data about 1/5th the price
Click to expand...


Any particular reasons you do not mention the Inmarsat Isatphone ?


thanks

:)
 
Ariadne said:
JPSK mail or something like that, is what I'm told the Ham people use for e-mail/web browsing over MF/HF radio now. They don't seem to bother with clunky pactor modems anymore it's all PC based software now.

So if any Hams out there want to let us all know how to use this programe or whatever you guys use, and what we need to get the input and output mic levels sorted; we're all ears???
Click to expand...

Just to add to bilgediver..

I've just this moment got it working. :cool::cool: Just how self sufficient do I feel right now :)

http://www.winlink.org/userPositions I'm m6bkq.

You need a full ham license to get the maritime mobile call sign so you can operate offshore. 3 exams in total. I've not got that far yet but can still operate as I'm not in tidal waters.

They recommend this as a soundcard - http://www.tigertronics.com/
Which works great for weatherfax and rtty weather as well.

You can't get an account over the internet, only via ham radio frequencies, though you get sent a password via radio so you can access your account using a basic webmail. If the gps is plugged into your computer you can update your position via radio with the click of a button. You can do it over webmail as well.

And it's free! :cool:

I struggled to get a decent connection, think it was in switzerland in the end, I'm hoping a lot of this is because of being a few feet away from office blocks towering over the mast and surrounded by other boats in the middle of London. If anyone wants to relate how much better reception is offshore then please make my day. :)

So it's an option, it works. Might be hard to justify the 3 exams and install just for a couple of transats when a hired satphone is easy but for long term stuff it's worth thinking about.
 
Ariadne said:
JPSK mail or something like that, is what I'm told the Ham people use for e-mail/web browsing over MF/HF radio now. They don't seem to bother with clunky pactor modems anymore it's all PC based software now.

So if any Hams out there want to let us all know how to use this programe or whatever you guys use, and what we need to get the input and output mic levels sorted; we're all ears???

If you do want to down Iridium/Inmarsat route, do talk to Ed at mailasail.com he knows his stuff!
Click to expand...

There is a digital mode called PSK31 that is fairly widely used

Phase shift keying.

You can download software free from the net

Printsout on a computer screen, just type in to send.

Its a very narrow bandwidth so has good immunity to noise meaning you can close he bandwidth down to the minimum.

The screen will typically show a "waterfall" display just tune a marker over a kine down the waterfall and text appears on screen. then save or delete as you wish.

PS

Should have added - this and other digital modes have a much higher duty cycle than voice or even morse (the best digital mode of all) so you will have to reduce the drive from what is normal on SSB. The radio handbook should give you the maximum allowed for continuous power output. It may give a power for AM speech which will be the same as for digital modes.
 
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