Long Distance

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Big Fish

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Long Distance
I am thinking about going on a long distance sailing adventure at some stage. Looking at Boat reviews in YM to help with Boat choice, what is the difference between "offshore passage making" and "trade wind voyaging". Surely they are very similar types of sailing? If a Boat is rated 4 out of 5 for one it must be very much the same for the other? Thanks
Losssa.
 
That's a big question with many possible answers.

My take on it is that if there is any difference at all then it is the difference between a boat that you would enjoy a rough North Sea or Biscay Winter passage on, and a boat that you would live on in tropical anchorages and warm storms. Many boats would be a compromise between the two, but I would remember that the vast proportion of time will be spent living aboard at anchor or calm voyaging.

For the first one, I would want a large cat for inside steering and visibilty, stability and the ability to cook whilst sailing upright, and it's motion in horrible weather. For the second, I would want a large cat for it's store carrying capacity, it's lack of rolling at anchor and open light accommodation. If I had the time and money.
 
RupertW said:
it is the difference between a boat that you would enjoy a rough North Sea or Biscay Winter passage on, and a boat that you would live on in tropical anchorages
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Sounds about right to me. Even though a tradewind voyage is of course an offshore passage, "Offshore passagemaking" to me implies "tough" in a way that "trade winds" doesn't.

Pete
 
prv said:
Sounds about right to me. Even though a tradewind voyage is of course an offshore passage, "Offshore passagemaking" to me implies "tough" in a way that "trade winds" doesn't.
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Perhaps a different kind of toughness. The trade-wind boat has to stay good day-in, day-out in F5 winds, without outside support. A lot of boats would handle a rough offshore passage, but would not stand up to the accumulation of maintenance problems that arise in a long haul. For example, every year in the ARC a fair number of AWB's suffer rudder problems, even though they've previously crossed Biscay to get to the starting line.

To my mind too, a good trade-wind boat is designed to be sailed short-handed, sacrificing people space for storage (fuel, water, supplies): not so necessary for the offshore passage-maker.
 
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Boat for long distance. Its kind of like asking how long is a piece of string?
There are just so many options and opinions. Some people have sailed a heck of a long way on boats I wouldn't take across a pond.

If you are looking for a boat you need to decide what kind of sailing you are "really" going to do. What kind of budget you have. Then look for what kind of boats fit your budget. There is no point in telling you. You need a Swan 65 or 40 ft Rustler Bowman. If its way out of reach.

Long distance, Offshore passage making, Trade wind sailing are all synonyms to me. Though clearly not to everyone.

You need to decide if long distance means sailing round Britain. Dylan just went 3/4 of the way in a Centaur this summer. He also has completed half the trip in some odd little boats.
He took his centaur out to the Shetlands. I would call that "Offshore".
How much comfort do you need, How many are coming just you, you and the misses or 6 kids and a dog as well.

Sailing the trades. Could be just along the island chain. To me it implies crossing oceans and is in a different league from sailing round the UK. Or in my case up the US west coast.

I chose my boat to be suitable for what I intended to do.
No Oceans.
Mostly shorter trips in relatively sheltered area where light winds predominate.
I wanted to be able to do longer coastal voyages from time to time. Perhalps some which might be considered long distance or offshore.

My first trip was the voyage home Portland to The Vancouver BC Area.
I hope to go round Vancouver Island and up to Alaska eventually.

Old 1980s 35ft IOR cruiser racer style white boat with fin keel and no Skeg. The swan or Bowman would have been nice but never a reality.
It was about a tenth the cost of a modern AWB. Some people would tell you I need a long keel, or a skeg, a much heavier boat.

But my light weight, old retired, club race boat suites me. And most of what I do. it has no fancy comforts. Just a head, A stove(oven doesn't work) a cooler, and a small water tank with a hand pump. A great improvement on my previous boat. My wife was just happy to have a head.

We don't intend to live on it. And I am quite happy to head of in a canoe for a week or more in the wilderness with nothing but what I can carry. So the head and stove and a dry bunk are quite luxurious.

She is rated to participate in offshore races. Provided I have the required gear. She probably could follow a trade wind route across the Atlantic. though I doubt it would be the wisest choice for the trip. She just doesn't have the storage capacity. For food fuel and water.
 
>Offshore passage making" to me implies "tough" in a way that "trade winds" doesn't.

They are the same thing as most offshore passage use the trade wind for down wind passages. Our Atlantic crossing was in light winds and we were praying for squalls to get the speed up. Two years later we were on the ARC finish line and the boats had 30 knots gusting to 50, the damage included broken booms, booms torn off, spinnaker poles torn off the mast, broken carbon spinnaker poles, damaged rigs, damaged rudders and torn sails and spinnakers.

Bavarias have crossed with no problems but I would recommend a heavier boat in case you come across heavy weather. Across Biscay we had winds gusting to 50 knots, a Cat hove to using both engines, a Moody ketch ran off with drogues and a local fishing boat was lost with all hands (very sad). We kept sailing in a heavy displacement steel ketch.
 
Surely the reason they are called "trade winds" was because they blew consistently from one direction for a number of weeks or months, enabling early merchant ships (which could not really sail up wind) to time their passages so that they were always sailing down wind. So a "trade wind" boat will be better at sailing down wind, but may be lousy up wind.
 
>So a "trade wind" boat will be better at sailing down wind, but may be lousy up wind.

I'm not aware of any boats that are designed for only sailing downwind, I don't think anyone would buy one. The only thing you need is a downwind sail(s), spinnaker or a Twistle rig which we had. After an Atlantic crossing the sailing in the Caribbean is upwind, downwind.
 
Big Fish said:
Long Distance
I am thinking about going on a long distance sailing adventure at some stage. Looking at Boat reviews in YM to help with Boat choice, what is the difference between "offshore passage making" and "trade wind voyaging". Surely they are very similar types of sailing? If a Boat is rated 4 out of 5 for one it must be very much the same for the other? Thanks
Losssa.
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Why not do the ARC or a similar voyage as crew first to see if you really want to do it?

In the process you will meet other long-distance sailors and learn a lot about their boats and why they love/hate them.

Regarding the marks out of five given in YM boat tests - that the tests are usually carried out in inshore waters over a day or two - the testers rarely take the boats offshore, for obvious reasons - so these are only educated opinions/guesswork. You are better speaking to or communicating with people who have these types of boats and use them offshore. Owners' associations could be a place to start.

You are very fortunate to be able to consider buying a boat specifically for this purpose. When I wanted to go offshore I had to do it in the boat I had. Almost any boat can make long offshore passages given suitable preparation and caution.

- W
 
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webcraft said:
Why not do the ARC or a similar voyage as crew first to see if you really want to do it?

In the process you will meet other long-distance sailors and learn a lot about their boats and why they love/hate them.

Regarding the marks out of five given in YM boat tests - that the tests are usually carried out in inshore waters over a day or two - the testers rarely take the boats offshore, for obvious reasons - so these are only educated opinions/guesswork. You are better speaking to or communicating with people who have these types of boats and use them offshore. Owners' associations could be a place to start.

You are very fortunate to be able to consider buying a boat specifically for this purpose. When I wanted to go offshore I had to do it in the boat I had. Almost any boat can make long offshore passages given suitable preparation and caution.

- W
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First class advice, well said.

Personally I have taken a variety of yachts offshore and across the Atlantic and spend both time and money in thorough preparation.

The reason I do it? Its awesome! (thanks, yanks)
 
The weather/climate might also be a factor. Offshore passage maker suggests rugged seakeeping and weatherliness to me, a boat capable to handling the open sea, say to northern Spain across Biscay, or up to Iceland or Norway. Refining that segment to stress trade wind passages would suggest a boat that is also rugged and seaworthy, and which would cope with long downwind legs in sub-tropical weather, without rolling you into injury or insanity, while staying as comfortable as possible below.
 
My 19 year old Moody 44 that I sold in 2010 is now across the Atlantic, and might even be in the Pacific.

The Carter 42 I sailed in the late 1990's was in the Pacific in the early part of 2000.

I read the blogs of both, and both seemed to have coped well.

So I can vouch for a Carter 42, and a Moody 44.
 
webcraft said:
Why not do the ARC or a similar voyage as crew first to see if you really want to do it?

In the process you will meet other long-distance sailors and learn a lot about their boats and why they love/hate them.

Regarding the marks out of five given in YM boat tests - that the tests are usually carried out in inshore waters over a day or two - the testers rarely take the boats offshore, for obvious reasons - so these are only educated opinions/guesswork. You are better speaking to or communicating with people who have these types of boats and use them offshore. Owners' associations could be a place to start.

You are very fortunate to be able to consider buying a boat specifically for this purpose. When I wanted to go offshore I had to do it in the boat I had. Almost any boat can make long offshore passages given suitable preparation and caution.

- W
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I agree, and of course as others (and the OP) have said, these phrases have similar meanings. Likewise "Blue Water " boats etc.

BUT other variables are more personal - a "great" tradewind/offshore boat could be good/bad for your own purposes
- using the same boat with large/full crew instead of single or double handed will be quite different,
- the climates to which one takes a boat (pilothouse better where it's cold, whereas pilothouse and even teak deck too hot in tropics)
- the extent to which it's going to be your home - you gonna be flying back after a long passage, or (like lots of liveaboards) are you going to be living on the thing and sailing actually max one day a week?
- your own (and your crew/swmbo) physical size - i know a tall guy who chose boats primarily on headroom and bed size

So, i spose you'd have to check some of these things yourself, and praps come back with specific boat and at least a general route plan
 
Richard10002 said:
My 19 year old Moody 44 that I sold in 2010 is now across the Atlantic, and might even be in the Pacific.

The Carter 42 I sailed in the late 1990's was in the Pacific in the early part of 2000.

I read the blogs of both, and both seemed to have coped well.

So I can vouch for a Carter 42, and a Moody 44.
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Well, not really - what did you expect - that they wouldn't make it or they'd fall apart? As others suggest, almost all boats can make a long passage, but it's the degree of ease/comfort/safety etc with which they can do that, perhaps not just once but again and again. Frinstance, sub-35ft catamarans might not be ideal long distance boats but the French take some of them (with no radar and minimal other equipment) straight to Tahiti to operate as charter boats.
 
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