Lombardini Diesel engines

[Koeketiene]

I'm looking to repower my boat - the current Volvo Penta 2003 is a bit "dodgy" to say the least. In just over two years it has cost me an arm and a leg, and no amount of swearing and agro, just to keep it going. So I've decided to stop throwing good money away and just go for a new engine.

After a lot of reading & comparing I had my mind set on a Yanmar. The yard I contacted to fit the engine asked me if I ever gave thought to a Lombardini - they could give me a 15% discount on those engines. Are they value for money, reliable, etc... or is it just the yard looking to get a lemon of there hands. Must admit I had never heard of Lombardini before.

All comments/advice greatly appreciated.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[Birdseye]

They're Italian. Yanmar is Jap, of course. Which do you think would be more trustworthy - a Jap car or an Italian one?

I know nothing specific about Lombardini, good or bad. Have you considered a Beta. They use Kubota engines, and seem to be getting themselves a good reputation - though again I have no personal experience. They also seem to be well priced

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[pvb]

All engines are discounted...

Ignore list prices, they're all discounted. I wouldn't necessarily rule out Lombardini because of Italian origins (Ferrari are Italian and make some pretty good engines!). But there are many good reasons to look at Japanese-based engines. As birdseye said, Beta have a good reputation.

What's wrong with your 2003? I have one and it seems to be OK (touch wood), but it's only done about 1800 hours.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Koeketiene]

Re: All engines are discounted...

What's wrong with my Volvo 2003? Have you got a couple of hours?
Now seriously... when I bought Yanita she had suffered from 4/5 years of serious neglect. The service history of the engine was a joke. I knew that at the time (used it as an argument to knock serious bits of the asking price). On the other hand: how bad could it be? Well, much worse that that.

Over the past 2 years I have had:
- injector heads cleaned
- fuel system completely overhauled
- same for cooling system
- I changed all filters every (and I mean every) 100 hrs

Still:
- the thing won't go beyond 3000 rpm
- overheats after 2/3 hours of use

It's the 28hp saildrive version - the bare minimum for a 38ft, 6.3t boat.

The engine itself only has 1100hrs on it. I have heard from "experts" that the Penta 2003 was not exactly Volvo's best engine. I would take a lot of convincing to go for a Volvo again.

But otherwise have an open mind. Just want something that is reliable, good after sales service, and as we plan a circumnavigation in 2/3 years time (retirement on the horizon) spare parts should be widely available.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[pvb]

Re: All engines are discounted...

Sending you a PM

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[TonyBrooks]

A short while ago I was asked to put on a Diesel Engine Fammiliarisation course for BT engineers. It transpired that they use a number of 4 cylinder Lombardinis on their emergency generators.

Wishing to get a full picture of the engine (knowing they have an "odd" internal, individual cam operated combination of injector and pump) under the rocker cover, I phone Lombardini technical (a procedure that ususally get us a lot of information as a Motor Vehicle College) to fins out about type of valve adjusters and any other information about under rocker cover adjustments.

They refused to give any details (in the nicest posible way) and stated, more than once, that on eof their engineers was top be called in the event of a problem.

Now I can not comment on the life or long term reliability of the product, but I want to know how it works - not make an informed guess - so I can work out when to call an engineer or if I can fix it. I also have a pretty shrewed idea that if the top of the engine is that special that well qualified mechanics are unable to understand it, its likley to be difficult and expensive to repair/service.

I may be a bit of a ludite, but it has a timing BELT, and in my view such things in boats are an expensive disaster waiting to happen.

Now I wonder why its being "pushed" by the yard?


Tony Brooks

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[john_morris_uk]

Kubota are the base engine for the Beta and Nanni range. Lombardini claim to have produced an engine designed for the Marine environment (allegedly lighter) but there was only a couple of kg in it when we looked - and the service points weren't as conveniently positioned for a 'standard front only access situation' so we bought a Nanni last time. The time before we bought a Yanmar (why is it the last two boats we have had, have needed re-engining??) Nanni, Yanmar, Beta - take your pick. I don't believe any of this group are any worse or better than the others.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Aja]

Apparently Yanmar sell the only diesel specifically designed for marine use.

Pisser about the water pump of the 2GM20 though.

Donald

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[30boat]

I wouldn't go for the Lombardini.They need special tools for everything and don't seem to last.Besides they have an overhead camshaft with a timing belt wich is not a good thing on a boat.
Not long ago I ditched my old Bukh for a Beta and couldn't be happier.Fantastic engine.
Yanmars are very good,I had one for 9 years that never ever gave any trouble but the water pump on the 3 GMs is inacessible and that would rule them out for me.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dickh]

Lots of past posts on the subject of re-engining. As said previously, Nanni and Beta are Kubota based and have a good reputation as has Yanmar. The Yanmar water pump impellor is a B****** to replace easily, so I understand.
Don't totally dismiss the Volvo Penta current range of small engines. They are based on a Perkins design engine and the price will probably be competitive - and of course their aftersales service is pretty well worldwide. I would not have Lombardini because of the timing belt & servicing issue. Although they are supposed to be a specifically designed marine engine, they bear a remarkable likeness to their industrial range......
Get lots of quotes - there are hood discounts to be had if you search around. Go for a naturally aspirated engine, not turbocharged, less to go wrong.
Also compare spares prices, they can vary enormously for the same item from make to make.


<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Koeketiene]

Thank you all for your replies - food for thought indeed.

I am sure there are plent of good reliable Volvos about - but in my case it's a matter of once bitten, twice shy.

Some more concreet facts regarding the choice I'm facing.
1. Yard 1 - Lombardini LDW 2204 M - quoted at £7,800 ex VAT (have been offered a 15 percent discount on that). Labour quoted at £1,300 - £1,500
2. Yard 2 - Yanmar 3JH4-SD40 - quoted at £7,600 ex VAT. Labour - interesting offer here - if they can keep my current Volvo Penta 2003 28hp (1100 hrs) they will accept it as payment for the labour.

Given all your comments I am now seriously considering going for the second option. Would you consider the engine for labour swap a good deal?

The impeller on this particular Yanmar is within easy reach, and I like to option for a second alternator.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[dickh]

Yanita,
I can understand your retinence about another Volvo and your second option looks good - they obviously have a market for your old engine......
But still get another quote for a Beta or Nanni just to get a comparison

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

The only bit about about keeping the old engine for labour would be to me, that you will have paid for the work the moment the engine is lifted out. So if the work is not up to scratch then what can you do!

Just a thought.....

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[Koeketiene]

Given it some thought.

The yard is a recognised Yanmar dealer and servicecentre... even in these cynical times that has got to count for something. Who can you really trust?

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[DMGibson]

Unless you count the Sabb or Bukh.

And whose engines go into Yanmar excavators and garden tractors then???

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[davidfox]

I changed my old yanmar for a Beta 2 years ago, price was difficult to beat and I tried all makes inc lombardini. the Beta is a fantastic engine starting on the button every time, bags of power and quick to react - almost like a car engine. The big difference in price will be if you have to drastically alter engine bearers and buy a new prop and prop shaft to suit your new choice of engine, can be big money.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks David,

However, Yanita has a saildrive. The price quoted by the Yanmar dealership includes fitting the Yanmar saildrive unit as well. If it's not done right it should become obvious pretty soon (within warranty term).

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[mikeleslie]

Re: All engines are discounted...

There are a couple of things in the sequence:
First:
It may be a clogged exhaust, (the mixing elbow is a culprit) The test is simple:
Loosen the flange on the input side of the exhaust
retighten it a bit
bring the engine up to max rpm (load or not, you're call)
loosen the flange enough to have some leakage.
If the gas is under a lot of pressure, or the engine RPM goes up, this is it.
Second:
If the first test is completed (and you know everything's bleed) then:
check the fuel limiter
Is the RPM the same unloaded vs. loaded? If it's the same, and the exhaust is clear, then it's the limiter setting

If it's different then that's all there is short of replacing the prop, although you can always sand the bottom smooth for that last .001kt

<hr width=100% size=1>