Lofrans Windlass

[purplerobbie]

I have a lofrans windlass on my boat that dosent work.
I had a look at it today and there is a dead short across the wires that go to the motor from the control box.
Two grey and a black. I'm assuming that the two grey are the switiching live and the black is the negative.
Has anyone fitted one of these?
Is there anyway the wires could of shorted where they attach to the motor?
Or is it more likely that the motor has gone bang?
Any Thoughts?
Rob

 

[roger]

Power windlasses take an enormous current when working hard. I would guess that with most multimetres it would be hard to measure the resistance.
Very crude sum 12volts and 100 amps gies about 0.12 ohms.

 

[Billjratt]

Measure volts. As Roger says, ohms are too low in high power-low voltage circuits. What noises happen when you press the buttons? You should hear the solenoid click. There should be two fuses/trips - one 80amp-ish for the motor, and a smaller one for the solenoid.

 

[purplerobbie]

Nothing happens whan you press the switch. which is probably a good thing as there is a dead short after the solonid.
Rob

 

[Stoaty]

[ QUOTE ]
as there is a dead short after the solonid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not quite sure what you mean here. There should be continuity through the motor that's what makes it turn.

Your probably right about the black and grey wires.

Try using a jump lead to apply power direct to the winch. You might find a solenoid has burnt out. They are not very reliable.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "up" solenoid had burnt out and someone had replaced it with the "down" solenoid ( and just released the anchor on the clutch) and now the new "up" one has burnt out. I have seen it done twice.

 

[mocruising]

Lofrans have a good website you may be able to download some information.

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a lofrans windlass on my boat that dosent work.
I had a look at it today and there is a dead short across the wires that go to the motor from the control box.
Two grey and a black. I'm assuming that the two grey are the switiching live and the black is the negative.
Has anyone fitted one of these?
Is there anyway the wires could of shorted where they attach to the motor?
Or is it more likely that the motor has gone bang?
Any Thoughts?
Rob

[/ QUOTE ]We have a Lofrans windlass and the motor has three connections. The negative is common and then there are two 'positive' connections - one for each direction of rotation. The solenoid connects the positive to either one of these.

We have had problems with the solenoid seizing up. Water ingress (running dripping down a cable) locked up one of the solenoids and I had to strip it down and clean it up. Its not difficult (took me less then an hour to demount the thing, clean it and prove it before refitting).

I am not convinced that the 'short' that you believe exists on the motor itself really is a short. The resistance of a DC motor at rest is very low.

You should hear a sold 'clunk' from the solenoid when you press the lower or raise button. Check the supply to the solenoid with a multimeter and go from there? The solenoid is agricultural and easy to strip down as I said earlier, but check the supplies first. There should be an inline fuse in the solenoid circuit. Ours is very close to the solenoid in the forepeak.

 

[Talulah]

Just to state the bleeding obvious and apologies if this comes across as a little bit basic.... Has this windlass ever worked on your boat? Have you found both trip switches/fuses? One for the main supply to the windlass via the solenoid and one for the solenoid itself. Also some boats the windlass only works with the engine running.

 

[masterofnone]

I have this on mine, a solid clunk and ...nothing . Is this the solenoids? 2 of these, round 2" dia 4" deep, do I just unbolt them, open them up, and clean the contacts?

 

[john_morris_uk]

You need to check what is actually happening at the solenoid. A solid clunk is a good start, but a meter will tell you wat is going in and coming out. Remember that if you disconnect the windlass, the meter might suggest that there is 12 v coming out of the solenoid at the right time, but the solenoid might not produce 12v into the load of the motor.

The main (large copper nuts) connections on the solenoid are 'centre in' with the two either side the alternative 'outs'. The small lucar connections are the solenoid coils, but that bit seems to be working on yours.

It could be a failure of the main supply to the centre terminal or corroded connections inside the solenoid or a faulty windlass motor (or I suppose a break in the wiring somewhere.

If its failed on 'up' and 'down' I suppose an obvious place to check would be the 'negative' (common) connection on the motor.

 

[masterofnone]

I'll check the in/out voltages, then come back to you.

 

[Talulah]

A solid clunk and nothing suggests solenoid ok.
Problem could be the windlass mechanics, motor, corrosion, fuses or batteries.
To test the motor you would have to take it off and connect it directly to a battery. Take it off and use the car battery via jump leads.
If ok the next test is to connect the motor to the windlass supply cables but with the motor still off the windlass.
If it turns but only weekly with engine running then suspect batteries.
If no life at all connect to cable on the battery side of solenoid.
If still no life suspect main supply trip/fuse to solenoid.
If motor seems ok when off the windlass but fails to turn the windlass itself suspect corrosion.

 

[pathfinder]

My present boat came with a lofrans which did nothing when the switch was pressed,turned out to be the brushes in the motor sticking in their holders I cleaned them up and its worked fine since.

 

[purplerobbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to state the bleeding obvious and apologies if this comes across as a little bit basic.... Has this windlass ever worked on your boat? Have you found both trip switches/fuses? One for the main supply to the windlass via the solenoid and one for the solenoid itself. Also some boats the windlass only works with the engine running.

[/ QUOTE ]

No basic is good
It has never worked while i have had the boat.

There is three heavy wires going in to the solenoid one red (coming from the batteries) and two grey (going to the motor)

If it put a multimeter across the red and one of the grey, i get 12v.

Something has happened under the motor (or in) to join the black and grey wire.

It has nothing to do with the solenoid. If i took the solenoid out and joined the red to one of the grey it wouldnt turn the motor it would just blow the trip

Could this motor of shorted out?
Or is it more likely that its a bad installation?

Rob

 

[Talulah]

Well my money is now on corrosion, motor alignment or motor burnt out. You'll have to take the motor off the windlass to confirm and do the test with the car battery to check.
The reason I say this is because the tripping could be caused by the motor trying to turn but it can't. Hence drawing too many amps and tripping. Secondly, the motor could by now have overheated before trip triggered and burnt out. The trip being triggered once the coils were burnt through.

 

[Billjratt]

I have a lofrans Kobra installed last year, it has a vertical motor, so before fitting, I drilled holes in the base cover to allow water to drain. It may be a stable door job for you, but worth doing if it gets fixed. For the moment, if I was you, I'd get the whole thing onto the bench and in bits before going any further with sparks. you say it has never worked (for you) so there may be stiff/siezed mechanics as well as duff joints to be rejuvenated.

 

[Roberto]

not very scientific I am afraid, but we had the same problem in a former boat, solenoids were working, but the windlass engine was like dead.

We were about to scrap it, but as a last try we almost soaked the motor in WD40 (which came out reddish, suggesting a liberal distribution of rust everywhere), moved it a little by hand, and it eventually restarted functioning, and kept on working since..

just in case..

/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
There is three heavy wires going in to the solenoid one red (coming from the batteries) and two grey (going to the motor)

If it put a multimeter across the red and one of the grey, i get 12v.

Something has happened under the motor (or in) to join the black and grey wire.

It has nothing to do with the solenoid. If i took the solenoid out and joined the red to one of the grey it wouldnt turn the motor it would just blow the trip

Could this motor of shorted out?
Or is it more likely that its a bad installation?



[/ QUOTE ] Sorry its taken me a while to reply - had to go to Bath to fetch the children at the end of term.

The three wires going into the solenoid are Red= 12 volts in; Grey and Grey= 12 volts out to eithere the forward or backwards connections on the motor.

The reason that your meter shows 12 volts between the terminals is that the grey wires to the motor are effectively shorted to ground as far as your meter is concerned. The resistance through the motor is so low that the meter doesn't notice that the motor is in series with your measuring.

I would be much more interested to know what the reading is across the terminals of the solenoid when someone presses the button and it goes 'clunk'. One pair of red to grey terminals should go to zero volts.

Are you saying that it DOES blow the trip if you connect the red straight to one of the grey's? If that is so, the probable cause is that the motor is seized.

If this is the case, take it off the boat (might be a struggle!) and either strip it down yourself, or get a friendly auto-electrician to strip it downm and rebuild it.

All the bearings and brushes will amost certainly be available. Check the price of new motor as well just to be sure.

If you are half decent at DIY its possible that you can resurrect it yourself. Just make sure you get any spacers back in place on the armature/commutator. Also there are tricks to getting the brushes back in place on some motors. (For instance you either need a 'brush hook' (bit of bent wire) or pins through holes in the casing which you withdraw to allow the brushes back onto the commutator when its all back together.

A photo would help if you have to go down this route.

Its also conceivable that the gearing is seized and the motor is fine...

 

[john_morris_uk]

Just to emphasise - all the rebuild notes and suggestions in my last post is assuming that you have definitely PROVED that the motor doesn't function when a good 12 volts supply is put on one of the grey wires and that you have checked that the negative cable is also sound and connected properly.

If you have got a heavy cable with 12 volts on it and 'dab' it onto the terminal, you will ether get a shower of sparks showing that the motor is siezed or shorted out somehow, the motor will work, or you will get nothing at all. The latter is unlikely as your previous measurements at the solenoid shows that there is some sort of continuity through the motor.

 

[Graham_Wright]

On my Lofrans, I tried to fit heavy cables to the motor but found that the terminals were so close together that the leads shorted. As a remedy, I extended the centre one to lift it clear of the others. If the connections are substantial, it could be they have worked loose and now touch. A design modification is required in my book. If the terminals are shorted, we are talking mega-amps which will have destroyed something, probably the solenoid.

The advice given so far is excellent;- just follow it!

Good luck and remember that (according to Nigel Calder, I think) most windlass winches are modified starter motors. If it is defunct, try a starter motor repair outfit;- you never know.