masterofnone
Well-Known Member
The solenoid appears to be sticking( ie it clicks but does not operate the windlass) ideas on how to persuade said reticent item to do what it should.
Lofrans windlass solenoid problem
- Thread starter masterofnone
- Start date
Billjratt
Well-Known Member
Is the high current trip OK? if not the solenoid will pick, but have nothing to switch. Measure volts everywhere in both energised and dropped conditions, and post results.
FAITIRA
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is the high current trip OK? if not the solenoid will pick, but have nothing to switch. Measure volts everywhere in both energised and dropped conditions, and post results.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes had a similar prob, it was just the heavy cable conns. Have a look at the switches while you,r at it, that was my next prob, all ok now, fingers crossed!!!
Is the high current trip OK? if not the solenoid will pick, but have nothing to switch. Measure volts everywhere in both energised and dropped conditions, and post results.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes had a similar prob, it was just the heavy cable conns. Have a look at the switches while you,r at it, that was my next prob, all ok now, fingers crossed!!!
steve_cronin
N/A
Re: Lofrans windlass _NOT the best of units
They do tend to burn their contacts. Mine went US after 3 years of Med anchoring - don't forget we use the windlass a lot. The replacement has lasted another three years so far but I carry a spare.
A replacement made from two inertia starter motor solenoids is a very popular modification in Greece and due to their robust nature, a long lasting one.
Steve Cronin
They do tend to burn their contacts. Mine went US after 3 years of Med anchoring - don't forget we use the windlass a lot. The replacement has lasted another three years so far but I carry a spare.
A replacement made from two inertia starter motor solenoids is a very popular modification in Greece and due to their robust nature, a long lasting one.
Steve Cronin
EdWingfield
Well-Known Member
I had this problem. An electrician mate of mine traced the fault to the solenoid itself.
He dismantled the unit (about the size and shape of a small motorcycle battery) The heavy duty copper contacts were pitted and burnt from arcing. He filed and polished the contacts and reassembled.
Good as new.
ps. If it reoccurs I will have the confidence to tackle the job myself.
pps I'm told a replacement unit is pricey.
He dismantled the unit (about the size and shape of a small motorcycle battery) The heavy duty copper contacts were pitted and burnt from arcing. He filed and polished the contacts and reassembled.
Good as new.
ps. If it reoccurs I will have the confidence to tackle the job myself.
pps I'm told a replacement unit is pricey.
jerryat
Well-Known Member
Yep, Teredo is correct. These solenoids are very easy to dismantle/reassemble and it's most likely that the heavy copper strips are pitted or corroded.
I had to strip mine down a few years ago as the strip operated by the solenoid was sticking. A good clean up and a smear of grease, and it's been been perfect ever since - and that's about 6-7 years.
I had to strip mine down a few years ago as the strip operated by the solenoid was sticking. A good clean up and a smear of grease, and it's been been perfect ever since - and that's about 6-7 years.
branko
Well-Known Member
Common problem. I have change mine after 3 years .
It is not complicated to change it. Always have spare box on boat!
I had the problem that windlass did not stop when I anchored and have to run to switch off Main switch.
It is not complicated to change it. Always have spare box on boat!
I had the problem that windlass did not stop when I anchored and have to run to switch off Main switch.
steve_cronin
N/A
[ QUOTE ]
...
I had the problem that windlass did not stop when I anchored and have to run to switch off Main switch.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the nasty one and can end up in a lot of damage if the windlass refuses to stop when parking a self-stowing anchor.
When you disssassemble the Lofrans solenoid it is very obvious that the return spring is puny and far too lightweight to break a partial "arc-weld" of the contact bar to one or both studs.
I know a charter operator in Corfu who has replaced all of his with the pair of starter solenoids option for this very reason. Charterers mightn't have the quick reaction to dive below to turn off the master switch and even then they would run the risk of destroying the alternator if they hadn't had the gumption to stop the engine first.
Steve Cronin
...
I had the problem that windlass did not stop when I anchored and have to run to switch off Main switch.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the nasty one and can end up in a lot of damage if the windlass refuses to stop when parking a self-stowing anchor.
When you disssassemble the Lofrans solenoid it is very obvious that the return spring is puny and far too lightweight to break a partial "arc-weld" of the contact bar to one or both studs.
I know a charter operator in Corfu who has replaced all of his with the pair of starter solenoids option for this very reason. Charterers mightn't have the quick reaction to dive below to turn off the master switch and even then they would run the risk of destroying the alternator if they hadn't had the gumption to stop the engine first.
Steve Cronin
alan_d
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That is the nasty one and can end up in a lot of damage if the windlass refuses to stop when parking a self-stowing anchor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the circuit-breaker trip under those cicumstances (if it had been correctly specified)?
What about if you pressed the down button while it was stuck on up? Is it a single, high current, changeover switch or two separate ones with an interlock to (normally) prevent both being operated at once?
Alan
That is the nasty one and can end up in a lot of damage if the windlass refuses to stop when parking a self-stowing anchor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the circuit-breaker trip under those cicumstances (if it had been correctly specified)?
What about if you pressed the down button while it was stuck on up? Is it a single, high current, changeover switch or two separate ones with an interlock to (normally) prevent both being operated at once?
Alan
steve_cronin
N/A
Any CB will only function when a severe current overload (in our case >100amps) is experienced. This will be long after the anchor has slammed into the stemhead at full speed, the motor is stalled for a whileand the woodruff key on the shaft has been bent so far out of shape that it cannot be removed.
The control box contains a bar that is either pulled between contacts 1 & 2 or 2 & 3. This means that up & down cannot be connected at the same time. This is also repeated in the hand control unit. When two auto starter solenoids are used, an M-O-M is best substituted for the hand control but not entirely necessary.
Steve Cronin
The control box contains a bar that is either pulled between contacts 1 & 2 or 2 & 3. This means that up & down cannot be connected at the same time. This is also repeated in the hand control unit. When two auto starter solenoids are used, an M-O-M is best substituted for the hand control but not entirely necessary.
Steve Cronin
alan_d
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your response, Steve.
Yes, I understand now; I had been thinking about the solenoid sticking when I was recovering the last few feet of chain, but of course it could stick as the anchor was breaking out with the results you describe. Under those circumstances I would have to rush to trip the breaker, which fortunately I can reach from the companionway.
It was because I worried about something like that happening that I went for a hand control on a curly cable, poked out of the forehatch as required, rather than foot-switches which seemed to me very vulnerable, but that wouldn't help with the solenoid contacts welding together.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an M-O-M?
Alan
Yes, I understand now; I had been thinking about the solenoid sticking when I was recovering the last few feet of chain, but of course it could stick as the anchor was breaking out with the results you describe. Under those circumstances I would have to rush to trip the breaker, which fortunately I can reach from the companionway.
It was because I worried about something like that happening that I went for a hand control on a curly cable, poked out of the forehatch as required, rather than foot-switches which seemed to me very vulnerable, but that wouldn't help with the solenoid contacts welding together.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an M-O-M?
Alan
steve_cronin
N/A
It's a switch with three positions two "Ons" top and bottom but with the toggle spring loaded to the central off position so that as soon as you let go it returns to off.
Steve Cronin
Steve Cronin
Steve_N
Well-Known Member
We had our windlass solenoid stick on this summer, and it was a nasty experience.
In our ancient S-L installation the solenoid is part of the footswitch i.e. the footswitch is just a high current switch. As the anchor broke the surface I released the footswitch but the windlass just kept on going.. It wasn't something that I was expecting, and it was quite a shocker. There's a breaker under the deckhead near the windlass and a fuse and master switch away in the aft cabin. I had to run down into aft cabin and turn the switch - as the CQR was being ground into the stemhead fitting. Luckily everything survived without damage.
Needless to say I'm fitting a modern footswitch and a simple starter solenoid (we only need UP on our windlass) this winter..
In our ancient S-L installation the solenoid is part of the footswitch i.e. the footswitch is just a high current switch. As the anchor broke the surface I released the footswitch but the windlass just kept on going.. It wasn't something that I was expecting, and it was quite a shocker. There's a breaker under the deckhead near the windlass and a fuse and master switch away in the aft cabin. I had to run down into aft cabin and turn the switch - as the CQR was being ground into the stemhead fitting. Luckily everything survived without damage.
Needless to say I'm fitting a modern footswitch and a simple starter solenoid (we only need UP on our windlass) this winter..
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
We had our windlass solenoid stick on this summer, and it was a nasty experience.......
[/ QUOTE ]This thread has been worrying me. I think I have a solution for a Lofrans Tigress, for the case where on raising the anchor the solenoid is welded 'on'. With the Tigress, the gypsy is driven via a conical clutch and it should be possible to spin the nut to break the drive. I shall now make a point of keeping the lever to hand. I think that if you can get the lever onto a spigot then the anti-clockwise movement of the gypsy will automatically break the drive even if the lever hits the deck - i.e. it is safe. I'll try it out and if not, will report back. <span style="color:red">Edit... No! Wrong way round as I discovered when I looked at it, and as PVB points out below. Doing it this way would tighten the nut and make a horrible mess. It might be possible to loosen it with a soft hammer and that's what I will try until I can think of a better solution. </span>
Powering down is a different matter because if the lever hits the deck it will cause a huge problem. I think you'd need to take the chain off the gypsy manually and make fast on deck, then sort out the windlass.
We had our windlass solenoid stick on this summer, and it was a nasty experience.......
[/ QUOTE ]This thread has been worrying me. I think I have a solution for a Lofrans Tigress, for the case where on raising the anchor the solenoid is welded 'on'. With the Tigress, the gypsy is driven via a conical clutch and it should be possible to spin the nut to break the drive. I shall now make a point of keeping the lever to hand. I think that if you can get the lever onto a spigot then the anti-clockwise movement of the gypsy will automatically break the drive even if the lever hits the deck - i.e. it is safe. I'll try it out and if not, will report back. <span style="color:red">Edit... No! Wrong way round as I discovered when I looked at it, and as PVB points out below. Doing it this way would tighten the nut and make a horrible mess. It might be possible to loosen it with a soft hammer and that's what I will try until I can think of a better solution. </span>
Powering down is a different matter because if the lever hits the deck it will cause a huge problem. I think you'd need to take the chain off the gypsy manually and make fast on deck, then sort out the windlass.
pvb
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you can get the lever onto a spigot then the anti-clockwise movement of the gypsy will automatically break the drive even if the lever hits the deck - i.e. it is safe.
[/ QUOTE ]Isn't that the wrong way round? Wouldn't it tighten the nut?
I think that if you can get the lever onto a spigot then the anti-clockwise movement of the gypsy will automatically break the drive even if the lever hits the deck - i.e. it is safe.
[/ QUOTE ]Isn't that the wrong way round? Wouldn't it tighten the nut?
A
Anonymous
Guest
[/ QUOTE ]Isn't that the wrong way round? Wouldn't it tighten the nut?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif as I realised as soon as I looked at it! I have edited my post in red in case people had seen my post via email notice and not noticed the problem. Thanks for pointing it out.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif as I realised as soon as I looked at it! I have edited my post in red in case people had seen my post via email notice and not noticed the problem. Thanks for pointing it out.
steve_cronin
N/A
Forget the hammer too....
...unless you are particularly good at hitting a rotating objuct with one hell of a swipe!
Steve Cronin
...unless you are particularly good at hitting a rotating objuct with one hell of a swipe!
Steve Cronin
Roberto
Well-Known Member
Re: Forget the hammer too....
I remember having read Lofrans Tech department answer to one user who experienced the same problem
they indicated voltage drop as the main cause: the solenoid would start clicking (at high frequency), and eventually cause contacts to stick
they advised trying to reduce voltage drop by the usual means (higher wire diameter, clean contacts, new batteries, etc), or otherwise connect the solenoid control wires to a current source immune from the motor voltage drop, like the service battery bank
I remember having read Lofrans Tech department answer to one user who experienced the same problem
they indicated voltage drop as the main cause: the solenoid would start clicking (at high frequency), and eventually cause contacts to stick
they advised trying to reduce voltage drop by the usual means (higher wire diameter, clean contacts, new batteries, etc), or otherwise connect the solenoid control wires to a current source immune from the motor voltage drop, like the service battery bank
A
Anonymous
Guest
I have a local battery serving only an electronic radio receiver and the switchgear so I have no problems with that. What you say makes sense although it is also possible for a poorly designed spring to break. It would be nice to get some more feedback from people who have had a problem. Maybe this suggests that there is no general problem?
steve_cronin
N/A
[ QUOTE ]
... It would be nice to get some more feedback from people who have had a problem. Maybe this suggests that there is no general problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
I from my own experience and that of others around me would say to you;- far from it. There is CONSIDERABLE evidence, look at those here who have reported trouble, that this IS a weak unit and is best dispensed with - or at least treated with great caution and a spare kept to hand. Also, take my word for it, charter operators in the Med are all too well aware of this shortcoming and are prepared to deal with it.
I met Duncan Kent, the well known yachting journalist awaiting HIS charter boat being relieved of this very fault in Sami harbour a few years back. Duncan was getting to the point of remedying it with a couple of car solenoids when we left him. Mine failed some ten months later.
Do you take that on board Mr Lemain? You surely have the feedback you seek here?
Steve cronin
... It would be nice to get some more feedback from people who have had a problem. Maybe this suggests that there is no general problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
I from my own experience and that of others around me would say to you;- far from it. There is CONSIDERABLE evidence, look at those here who have reported trouble, that this IS a weak unit and is best dispensed with - or at least treated with great caution and a spare kept to hand. Also, take my word for it, charter operators in the Med are all too well aware of this shortcoming and are prepared to deal with it.
I met Duncan Kent, the well known yachting journalist awaiting HIS charter boat being relieved of this very fault in Sami harbour a few years back. Duncan was getting to the point of remedying it with a couple of car solenoids when we left him. Mine failed some ten months later.
Do you take that on board Mr Lemain? You surely have the feedback you seek here?
Steve cronin