Lobster pot liability

[titsey]

It doesn't have to be at night.

On certain parts of the Jurassic coast there was a TV report a couple of years ago about the local fishermen nicking the contents of each other's pots. To prevent this, they now set their pots so that the floats are only visible at low water. Yachts need to beware when visiting, say Lulworth Cove at half tide that their props can foul on invisible lines. When confronted over a wrecked prop shaft and £1,000 bill one vessel suffered, the fishermen just shrugged their shouldders and said "too bad!"

 

[JumbleDuck]

Here we have in a nutshell the careless, selfish attitude of a lot of lobster fishermen.

A couple of years ago some dozy twonk had placed a string of small pot markers, linked by floating polypropylene rope, extending for a couple of hundred metres across the south end of Kames Bay, which is the direct route to Port Bannatyne Marina and moorings. I have to say that fishermen in Scotland generally seem to be much better now: I haven't seen an unidentified buoy or floating rope for ages.

Staffa trip boats and their amusing game of "Let's buzz the yachts in Bull Hole as near and as fast as we can" are a different matter.

 

[Seajet]

Not lobsters, but a chum recently heard that inshore fishermen were placing what looked like pot buoys ( ie small detergent cans ) in the very narrow West Cut channel between Sweare Deep and Hayling bridge, ie off Northney Marina.

What looked like pot markers were actually marking a net stretched across the channel to catch fish going through with the tide !

This was reported to the harbourmaster, I didn't hear any end result; but in the wrong conditions, say a strong Easterly and flood tide, a disabled yacht would have to act smartish with sails or anchor to avoid going onto Hayling road bridge.

The fishermen are completely aware of the dangers posed by their actions, they carry on partly through not caring less, partly I believe out of sheer chip-on-the-shoulder malice.

I came across both these sentiments when I had a ' discussion ' with a fisherman laying pots among our moorings, making it clear I was photographing him and his boat and that he'd better hope no-one else damaged a boat as he'd be no.1 target !

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I don't suppose I should be, but I'm surprised that some think it is OK for people to put pots out in obviously dangerous locations and without either proper markings or any concern about the consequences of their actions. If commercial vehicle drivers were to do the same kind of thing on ours roads I wonder how many would say "They're earning a living so they have more right to do as they please".

 

[prv]

I'm surprised that some think it is OK for people to put pots out in obviously dangerous locations and without either proper markings

Obviously you're not referring to me, but to be clear, I don't think that either of those things are OK.

Pete

 

[westhinder]

This MCA guidance makes interesting reading. Note the comment that "Gear should be set outside navigable channels"
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...and Safety/Marking-of-fishing-gear-MCA067.pdf

That is exactly what I had in mind when mentioning my experience in the Holy Island anchorage. The pot marker was exactly on the leading line that is marked on the charts and indicated by a highly visible transit. I simply do not understand why a fisherman, professional or amateur, would put his gear where he has the highest chance of losing it.
And it was not a single incident either, as in the approach there was another marker 50 metres from a cardinal mark, yes, on the side you are supposed to pass. Perhaps a case of a fisherman who has troubles finding his pots?

 

[ChrisE]

I simply do not understand why a fisherman, professional or amateur, would put his gear where he has the highest chance of losing it.

The point is that fishermen puts their pots and long lines where their prey is. The fact that it happens to be where others use the water is another matter.

As I've said before I spend most of my time on the water in the one of the most heavily laid area of pot and long line markers in the UK and have not had a problem. I can understand why people are nervous about them but don't understand why they don't do something about it. Such as a rope cutter on the prop, carrying a pole with a knife on it if things caught and not sailing in heavily potulated (geddit?) areas at night.

As others have said the commercial guys get hooked up as do charter skippers, they accept it as part of their boating life, I'd suggest that as yotties we're being way too precious about a known hazard that is generally avodiable with a good lookout and fixable with a bit of forethought.

 

[l'escargot]

The point is that fishermen puts their pots and long lines where their prey is. The fact that it happens to be where others use the water is another matter.

As I've said before I spend most of my time on the water in the one of the most heavily laid area of pot and long line markers in the UK and have not had a problem. I can understand why people are nervous about them but don't understand why they don't do something about it. Such as a rope cutter on the prop, carrying a pole with a knife on it if things caught and not sailing in heavily potulated (geddit?) areas at night.

As others have said the commercial guys get hooked up as do charter skippers, they accept it as part of their boating life, I'd suggest that as yotties we're being way too precious about a known hazard that is generally avodiable with a good lookout and fixable with a bit of forethought.

I wonder how many people complaining have ever been caught on the pot lines - they generally all seem to be able to spot these "badly marked" lines and submerged buoys otherwise they wouldn't know they were there to complain about them

They are just another hazard to avoid. For instance I know I will always encounter some to the east of Lymington entrance if I come along the mainland side - in amongst the race buoys, the racing dinghies and the shallow water - and I am always looking out for other things to avoid too. When I see any of these things I just take the necessary avoiding action. Too many people seem to expect to sail/motor in a straight line A to B these days.

 

[alant]

A trawl on the internet shows that harbour authorities prohibit fishing and laying pots in fairways. I don't think they do that to spoil people's fun or to deprive them of a living.

Obviously not sailed in Portugese waters then, cos almost all harbour entrances are like mine fields, pots everywhere.

 

[pathfinderstu]

I think the lobster boys don't want their pots to be seen and take the risk of loosing pots due to entanglement with vessels.
due to the fact that other fishermen may steal their pots and catch and also its not unknown for the odd yachtie to help himself to lobster thermadore for lunch.!

 

[JumbleDuck]

I wonder how many people complaining have ever been caught on the pot lines ...

Me, once, round a transom-hung rudder. Cut the line, sailed away.

 

[Seajet]

I wonder how many people complaining have ever been caught on the pot lines - they generally all seem to be able to spot these "badly marked" lines and submerged buoys otherwise they wouldn't know they were there to complain about them

They are just another hazard to avoid. For instance I know I will always encounter some to the east of Lymington entrance if I come along the mainland side - in amongst the race buoys, the racing dinghies and the shallow water - and I am always looking out for other things to avoid too. When I see any of these things I just take the necessary avoiding action. Too many people seem to expect to sail/motor in a straight line A to B these days.

What do you suggest, we sail a zigzag course like a WWII convoy ?!

As for ' just avoid them ' that's about the same as saying ' just win the lottery '...

Prop cutters are by no means infallible, and having the shaft pulled out even partway tends to spoil ones' day.

My boat has it easy, if I am motoring and the prop fouls a line - it's happened - I can lift the engine in the well, apply breadknife and carry on my way; but if it happened in the tides off say Portland inshore passage, being pinned by the stern could lead to major problems before I could do anything.

For this reason I and many others daren't use the inshore passage at night, and I'd think twice in daylight as the pot buoys are pulled underwater by the tide, so the inconsiderate clowns are adding miles and hours to peoples' passages just because they don't care.

BTW I have discussed this matter with a real pro' fisherman, the type with a brain; he said he'd rather the line was cut than the pot dragged out of position, he can recover the pot easily with a grapple.

I do think it's time we yotties became more pro-active in helping each other, and something like long handled garden pruning loppers with a serrated edge on the outside of the jaws became more standard equipment; then when a marker is spotted in a stupid place it gets the treatment to render it safe.

 

[l'escargot]

What do you suggest, we sail a zigzag course like a WWII convoy ?!...

What do you do with all those other hazards such as buoys, boats and shallows to name a few - go straight through them?

As for ' just avoid them ' that's about the same as saying ' just win the lottery '...

Really? I avoid pot markers every time I go out, which is most weeks, but have only won the lottery once - about 4 euros in the Euromillions

 

[Seajet]

l'escargot,

it is not asking for the moon on a stick to expect to lay a course between known points inc your buoys and shallows, without some idiot laying traps along that predictable course.

 

[l'escargot]

l'escargot,

it is not asking for the moon on a stick to expect to lay a course between known points inc your buoys and shallows, without some idiot laying traps along that predictable course.

There's nothing obtuse there. Laying traps - you'd better watch out for all those boats waiting to jump out in front of you too

Lobster fisherman, me, no too much like hard work and anyway I'm retired now but I do accept that I have to share the seas with all sorts of other water users and can't expect sole use of them...

 

[[2068]]

I wonder how many people complaining have ever been caught on the pot lines - they generally all seem to be able to spot these "badly marked" lines and submerged buoys otherwise they wouldn't know they were there to complain about them

Me, only once, a few years back, due to a floating line attached to a pot.
But I had to pay £700-ish in outdrive repairs as a result: I am very keen not to have to keep forking out random additional batches of £700 on a regular basis.

I still have a few near-misses each season where either the marker was partially underwater due to current, or was obscured by chop, or was too small to see until the last minute.

 

[Malo37]

The main problem is how can you avoid them at night?
The lobster fisherman next to me told me last week that as he hauled a pot in he noticed some nylon fishing line wrapped round the pot line. He pulled in cautiously looking for hooks and up came a very expensive carbon fibre rod with equally expensive reel attached. He was about a mile offshore and had a quick look round for any evidence of the fisherman !

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I wonder how many people complaining have ever been caught on the pot lines - they generally all seem to be able to spot these "badly marked" lines and submerged buoys otherwise they wouldn't know they were there to complain about them.

I got caught when right on the leading line into Aberystwyth harbour, an incredibly stupid location to place one. It got cut with a bread knife and I've never seen it reappear.

 

[ChrisE]

What do you suggest, we sail a zigzag course like a WWII convoy ?!

As for ' just avoid them ' that's about the same as saying ' just win the lottery '...

Prop cutters are by no means infallible, and having the shaft pulled out even partway tends to spoil ones' day.

My boat has it easy, if I am motoring and the prop fouls a line - it's happened - I can lift the engine in the well, apply breadknife and carry on my way; but if it happened in the tides off say Portland inshore passage, being pinned by the stern could lead to major problems before I could do anything.

For this reason I and many others daren't use the inshore passage at night, and I'd think twice in daylight as the pot buoys are pulled underwater by the tide, so the inconsiderate clowns are adding miles and hours to peoples' passages just because they don't care.

BTW I have discussed this matter with a real pro' fisherman, the type with a brain; he said he'd rather the line was cut than the pot dragged out of position, he can recover the pot easily with a grapple.

I do think it's time we yotties became more pro-active in helping each other, and something like long handled garden pruning loppers with a serrated edge on the outside of the jaws became more standard equipment; then when a marker is spotted in a stupid place it gets the treatment to render it safe.

And you'll be the arbiter of where a 'stupid place' is?

Sheesh, give me strength.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

What have you got against white van men? Earn good money, deliver all our parcels, polite and quite right to hate expensive cars. Sorry about the thread drift!

You would have to establish that

a) the fisherman owed you a duty of care
b) he breached that duty
c) you suffered damage as aresult
d) the damage was not too remote from his action.

If you are lucky you will get a judge who sails.

But the average inshore fisherman is probably 'a man of straw' with no money (the nautical equialent of white-van-man) so you might be wasting your time.



Maybe he's a knob-head who doesnt care about anyone except himself,

or maybe

he has a chip on his shoulder and hates anyone with a yacht (compare with white-van-man's hatred of expensive cars)