LM 27/Finnsailer 29

[ChromeDome]

Native to Denmark, the usual small-ads site over here currently has 25-30 for sale.

If nothing else the pictures may be of interest

Find Lm i Motorsejlere - Køb brugt på DBA - side 2

Edit: For better than Guughle translations use deepl.com

 

[Cspirit]

Here’s my take on this. I bought a neglected LM27 a year ago and spent the year refurbishing and updating. In effect I bought a hull and mast. I could have refurbed the engine but decided to go new, and replaced all rigging, plumbing, electrics etc. I have spent more than the boat is worth on the market but I now have a boat that suits me well. My last boat was a Westerly Corsair sloop which was/is a very seaworthy vessel and pretty close winded. Of course, the LM can't point as high but she does sail well and, as the OP says, the wheelhouse is a wonderful asset (plus a heater...)

However, bear in mind that if you are in the UK you have a limited choice of LM27s for sale. The many boats on the market in continental Europe are not going to be available to you because of Brexit. You also need to consider that these are old boats, some 40/50 years old and they will probably need much work. You may be lucky and find one that has been regularly updated but otherwise you’ll need to spend. The basic hull and structures are sound and will last a long time.

I certainly don’t regret my choice and I hope to be sailing my LM27 well into my 80s.

Bob

 

[ChromeDome]

The many boats on the market in continental Europe are not going to be available to you because of Brexit.

To be precise, and this not new, boats from any country, Continental Europe, EU, US or other are avaible to citizens in other countries - also the UK.

If bringing a boat to/from countries that are not member of a union like the EU however, conditions apply. Brexit changed the EU membership status and therefore the rules for the UK.

VAT / duty normally has to be paid on import, based on the boat's value. Hence the VAT becomes a cost factor in the businesscase, unless you find a boat that is non-VAT and therefore potentially cheaper to buy in the first place.

 

[ChromeDome]

Follow-up example:
The cheapest right now over here is DKK 58.000 (GBP 6700) which would set the basis for VAT calculation. Or a different amount that you have a receipt for paying (as "restoration" object no customs officer will be able to reject a low value).

Needs TLC but not in a too bad shape. Photos here

Auto-translated by Vivaldi browser (and headpiece=head, self-guide=tiller, bompresenning=boom canopy, kaleche=cockpit cover):

 

[ChromeDome]

And a Finnsailer, for comparison, again translated by the browser:

Asking DKK 89.000 (GBP 10.300) but in a much better shape.

Photos here

 

[Cspirit]

I defer to others’ expertise but my understanding is that the costs of importing a a boat to the UK (ChromeDome is correct, it’s any import not just from Europe) relate to VAT and compliance with CE regs which for a typical LM27 value around £12k I understand would be about £5k. When I looked for my LM27 last year it seemed to me that this made importing an LM27 from continental Europe prohibitively expensive, particularly bearing in mind the cost of delivery. All this may have changed more recently so I stand to be corrected.

The OP indicated interest in the LM27. My point is that, despite being great boats, there are not many for sale in the UK and that although there are many available in other countries there are significant costs involved which may make a deal unattractive.

However, the OP should not be put off buying an LM 27 and he/she is very welcome to look at my boat based Chichester.

Bob

 

[ChromeDome]

Takes a bit more digging into the case at hand.

CE might not be relevant as "Recreational craft that has been imported (not the year of manufacturing) from countries outside the EU or the EU countries Iceland and Norway after 16 June 1988 are required to be CE marked when they are put on the market or taken into use in the EU."

Since the LM was manufactured in DK and Finnsailer in Finland they are not imported to the EU. The import date may be a loophole for some other boats also.

I'm not certain what the UK requires when bringing in such a vessel.

 

[Tranona]

Takes a bit more digging into the case at hand.

CE might not be relevant as "Recreational craft that has been imported (not the year of manufacturing) from countries outside the EU or the EU countries Iceland and Norway after 16 June 1988 are required to be CE marked when they are put on the market or taken into use in the EU."

Since the LM was manufactured in DK and Finnsailer in Finland they are not imported to the EU. The import date may be a loophole for some other boats also.

I'm not certain what the UK requires when bringing in such a vessel.

That is a grey area at present in the UK. initially post Brexit it was said that all imports would need to be certified with no pre 1997 exemption as existed in the EU. Then an exemption was made for those with a CE mark and Certificate of Conformity. Recently the whole idea of a UK specific regulatory framework has been dropped but it is unclear exactly what would apply to secondhand boats.

The reality, however is that low value old boats like the ones under discussion are affected disproportionately by costs of importation. Even when the UK was part of the EU very few such boats came into the UK particularly from Scandinavia. Few are capable of sailing here and transport costs are typically £4-5k irrespective of value of the boat. Add to that the costs of travel to view and actually make the purchase and easy to see costs being as much as the purchase price before VAT which is paid not just on the value of the boat, but also on the cost of transport.

 

[ChromeDome]

That is a grey area at present in the UK. initially post Brexit it was said that all imports would need to be certified with no pre 1997 exemption as existed in the EU. Then an exemption was made for those with a CE mark and Certificate of Conformity. Recently the whole idea of a UK specific regulatory framework has been dropped but it is unclear exactly what would apply to secondhand boats.

The reality, however is that low value old boats like the ones under discussion are affected disproportionately by costs of importation. Even when the UK was part of the EU very few such boats came into the UK particularly from Scandinavia. Few are capable of sailing here and transport costs are typically £4-5k irrespective of value of the boat. Add to that the costs of travel to view and actually make the purchase and easy to see costs being as much as the purchase price before VAT which is paid not just on the value of the boat, but also on the cost of transport.

Agreed. Money talks and the intangible costs/benefits are hard to quantify.

That said, I've brought boats the other way on two occasions (our own + one for a friend),- the effort of going there to view (Hamble + Plymouth) was seen as a leisure trip, having a nice time AND viewing boats, and as such fell under the holiday budget. It all came down to the business cases and was helped by fair prices and good exchange rates on the days. It was, also, pre-Brexit.

As quite a few (also members of this forum) have done, the trip via the Kiel channel absolutely is doable, so if time allows a boat can be cruised to its new home on its own keel.