Baggy
Active member
During my atlantic circuit. 2 of us survived quite well on approx £700/800 a month.
liveaboard the actual cost?
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chinita
Well-known member
Like Maby, we are half time liveaboards and spend six winter months on board in Lagos (an expensive marina).
However, we only paid £16k for the boat - a 1972 32ft GRP Van der Stadt which had been perfectly adapted, by the friends from which we bought her, for this sort of purpose with a big awning, fridge/freezer, Taylors heater for a bit of cozy warmth on top of the fan heater.
The six month contract is €1,700. The summer storage ashore €900.00 (which has the additional benefit of drying the hull). Both include unlimited water and power. Add to that, say, €400.00 for maintenance and we have a holiday home for under €3k pa.
Having spent that we spend approximately €1k per month on food, socialising and running our Toyota Hiace van. We draw out the money in one tranche from Barclays, stick it in a tea caddy and always seem to have some left over. We want for nothing.
So that is €9k for our six months in a lovely temperate climate.
This is offset further by the savings on energy for our house in UK; the central heating thermostat is set to kick in at 3 deg and our gas standing order has no been reduced to £3.00 per month! Even further are the savings made when we transport cheap booze back home each summer. 100 litres of wine at less than €1 per litre is a huge factor for amateur alkies like ourselves.
The cost of getting to and fro is negligible (even if we splash out and take the Portsmouth to Santander ferry), and a fraction of what a typical two week summer holiday may cost.
I doubt that there would be an enormous difference in the figures if we decided to go boatless and just hunker down in the house for the winter. The difference is in our quality of life and better heath.
We were full time liveaboards until a few years ago but am struggling to recall the figures. They would be meaningless anyway for, as Nostro has said, every life, every day, every year is different for everyone.
However, we only paid £16k for the boat - a 1972 32ft GRP Van der Stadt which had been perfectly adapted, by the friends from which we bought her, for this sort of purpose with a big awning, fridge/freezer, Taylors heater for a bit of cozy warmth on top of the fan heater.
The six month contract is €1,700. The summer storage ashore €900.00 (which has the additional benefit of drying the hull). Both include unlimited water and power. Add to that, say, €400.00 for maintenance and we have a holiday home for under €3k pa.
Having spent that we spend approximately €1k per month on food, socialising and running our Toyota Hiace van. We draw out the money in one tranche from Barclays, stick it in a tea caddy and always seem to have some left over. We want for nothing.
So that is €9k for our six months in a lovely temperate climate.
This is offset further by the savings on energy for our house in UK; the central heating thermostat is set to kick in at 3 deg and our gas standing order has no been reduced to £3.00 per month! Even further are the savings made when we transport cheap booze back home each summer. 100 litres of wine at less than €1 per litre is a huge factor for amateur alkies like ourselves.
The cost of getting to and fro is negligible (even if we splash out and take the Portsmouth to Santander ferry), and a fraction of what a typical two week summer holiday may cost.
I doubt that there would be an enormous difference in the figures if we decided to go boatless and just hunker down in the house for the winter. The difference is in our quality of life and better heath.
We were full time liveaboards until a few years ago but am struggling to recall the figures. They would be meaningless anyway for, as Nostro has said, every life, every day, every year is different for everyone.
saltylegs
Active member
So that works out at about 15,000 per annum.
£12000, 15 years ago would be equivalent of £25000 a year now, but still £1200 a year is excellent now.
Costs in 2012 look tobe about the same, our estimate is around £10,000 again this year.
Not being retired yet, still working 6 months during winter to pay for our lifestyle, I didn't really want lifestyles but costs. If you have been doing it for a couple of years or more or recently started living aboard then you'll be able to work out or remember what its cost.
We have a Moody 33 MK1 so fees are cheap, average £18 a night in marinas (season) cheaper in winter for berths.
Our winter costs last year 2011 £900 (marina) winter leccy and gas £300, eating in/eating out, travel, mobile phone and internet, boat up keep £5000. summer costs £3500.
So for year 2011/12 (April to April) in total £9700.
Am I missing where the other 5 odd K has gone
just wondering as this is the route we plan to go in about 2 years.
NornaBiron
New member
The €2000 earnt each year is not used for living expenses. We are aware that we will not always be able to earn that so it is only used for updating, lifting etc.
We have a 49 foot steel boat with large water and fuel capacity so less need to go into harbours or marinas. The boat is equipped with a diesel stove for heating, diesel generator, solar panels and wind generator. We are able to stay at anchor year round and this significantly reduces costs. We go back to the UK separately so that we don't have to put the boat into a marina, we wouldn't be able to go back so often if we had to do that.
Our monthly income is broken down as such: £125 fuel - gas for cooking, petrol for dinghy, diesel for heating, generator and main engine (used as little as possible). €500 for general living expenses. The rest is for emergencies/trips back to UK. The emergency fund contribution fluctuates with the exchange rate but the fund does grow slowly (as long as we've had no emergencies!). My husband is able to maintain the boat himself, we never pay anyone for assistance. We're moving slowly around the world and have no plans to return to the stress that we left behind in the UK. Some would consider that we live a frugal life but we're miles away from Annie Hill et al.
Things that we used to take for granted when we were both earning e.g. meals out, we now view as treats. We have been surprised at how little we actually need and want. We certainly do not feel deprived, hard up or hard done by.
Being able to live this life indefinitely is reward enough for having to stick to a budget.
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gavin_lacey
New member
It really does depend on what you see as essential to making life enjoyable. Wintering in marinas it is possible to spend quite a lot drinking and eating ashore. However if you socialise onboard (your boat and friends) then life can be cheap. In the summer italian marinas can run to 100s of euros per night, greek harbours and anchorages might average 20 euros per week. Most people have a lifestyle comensurate with their income. Obviously having more money gives you more choice as it does shoreside. Having too little money can lead to a deteriorating boat. Replacing teak decks can cost 30000, painting non slip 30. Get a boat and plan a lifestyle comensurate with your income and liveaboard can be easily achieved anywhere between 10000pa and infinity.
maby
Well-known member
Fully agree - my point was that it's really necessary to distinguish between the cost of living aboard and the cost of living full stop. I know people that live on a very low budget ashore and others that live on a similarly low budget afloat. Equally, it's not hard to find people that spend a small fortune irrespective of where they live.
Hence, the question should be "what is the difference in expenditure between living your chosen lifestyle afloat and ashore?" Theoretically, that should just be the cost of buying and running the boat - probably between six and ten grand for a fairly new boat in the region of 35 foot located in a reasonable marina. You can certainly do it cheaper with a smaller, older boat in a cheaper location.
Of course, living board can encourage you to change your lifestyle - which, in turn, can push your cost of living up or down. If you are in a particularly sociable marina with good restaurants nearby, it can easily push your cost of living way up, whereas it's hard to spend a lot of money while you are sailing across the Atlantic. But none of that is strictly the cost of living aboard.
Bobobolinsky
New member
It's not how much the lifestyle costs, it's how much less it costs than fixed abode. Don't pay council tax, and moorings are a quarter of the cost of renting a house. I would have a vehicle whether I lived on the hard or the green.
maby
Well-known member
If the alternative is renting, then you are almost certainly right - there are few places in the country where you could rent anything for less than the mooring fees. The situation could be a bit different if your alternative were to buy a flat or house, particularly if you want a reasonably new, large boat. Boats do depreciate relatively quickly - houses tend to gain value. Probably does not matter if you are living on something small, old and cheap, but the calculations could be a lot different if you want a new, or nearly new, reasonably large boat. That could easily set you back a hundred grand - or a lot more. Those are prices that are approaching the cost of a flat in many places. However, the flat will be unlikely to lose value and will probably be worth a lot more in twenty or thirty years whereas the boat will have lost a lot of its original value.
The situation on Council Tax is also a lot less clear than many here would like to believe. If you are pretty much static in one mooring for long periods, you are very likely liable to pay Council Tax.
binch
New member
annual cost
Over 22 years afloat in a 3 masted schooner-rigged barge (inc 5 yrs inland) we checked carefully and averaged 14,300 pa.
We have no property in UK.
We seldom visit UK.
We much prefer anchorages and row ahore.
We have twice sailed from France ro Ionian (or v/v) without paying a cent in harbour dues.
We have seldom paid in the Aegean.
We do our own maintenance and haul out over the beach, not by rravel-lift in marinas.
We like genuine Med food.
We drink plonk.
We get our paint from Greek fishermen. There is a special channel which transmits (FOBOL) marine coatings from the shipyard in Siros round to all the harbours in Greece.
Learn colloquial French, Italian and Greek (Turkish is more difficult but have a go anyway)
We pay cash as we go and get all our cash from ATM's That makes it easy to keep Tally.
Do not go into Antibes, Porto Cervo, etc at all, let alone in summer.
Do not go in fancy restaurants serving English (sis) food. Eat local
With our previous boat, a 55ft ketch, mostly in the Caribbean, we spent less because you anchored almost all the time and the islands didn't have expensive foods to buy. Also we did a lot of ocean sailing which is very cheap.
Live native. It's not bad
Over 22 years afloat in a 3 masted schooner-rigged barge (inc 5 yrs inland) we checked carefully and averaged 14,300 pa.
We have no property in UK.
We seldom visit UK.
We much prefer anchorages and row ahore.
We have twice sailed from France ro Ionian (or v/v) without paying a cent in harbour dues.
We have seldom paid in the Aegean.
We do our own maintenance and haul out over the beach, not by rravel-lift in marinas.
We like genuine Med food.
We drink plonk.
We get our paint from Greek fishermen. There is a special channel which transmits (FOBOL) marine coatings from the shipyard in Siros round to all the harbours in Greece.
Learn colloquial French, Italian and Greek (Turkish is more difficult but have a go anyway)
We pay cash as we go and get all our cash from ATM's That makes it easy to keep Tally.
Do not go into Antibes, Porto Cervo, etc at all, let alone in summer.
Do not go in fancy restaurants serving English (sis) food. Eat local
With our previous boat, a 55ft ketch, mostly in the Caribbean, we spent less because you anchored almost all the time and the islands didn't have expensive foods to buy. Also we did a lot of ocean sailing which is very cheap.
Live native. It's not bad
maby
Well-known member
Hmmm, I think I would be more interested in how much it cost over the last couple of years - we've had a fair amount of inflation over a period of 22 years which does tend to skew the averages down a lot. If I look back thirty years ago, my total annual income after tax would have been less than the running costs of our boat last year.
Ludd
New member
IT'S ALL ABOUT EXPECTATIONS
Sorry,didn't mean to shout!
You live on what you've got,asnore OR afloat.
You don't NEED a car,you don't need canned food with a UK LABEL( just brought Baxter's Cullen Skink back from UK) you don't need to eat out,you don't NEED the latest i- wotsit!
You do need the will to enjoy what you HAVE got and what you CAN afford!
Sorry,didn't mean to shout!
You live on what you've got,asnore OR afloat.
You don't NEED a car,you don't need canned food with a UK LABEL( just brought Baxter's Cullen Skink back from UK
) you don't need to eat out,you don't NEED the latest i- wotsit!You do need the will to enjoy what you HAVE got and what you CAN afford!
TopDonkey
New member
My 27ft motor cruiser costs are as follows
£128.60 per month pontoon mooring
£10 per month electric hookup
£12 per month insurance
£80 per month food
£35 per month diesel eberspacher heating in winter only
£19 per month sports center swim and sauna membership (for the hot showers!)
That's about it I think
£128.60 per month pontoon mooring
£10 per month electric hookup
£12 per month insurance
£80 per month food
£35 per month diesel eberspacher heating in winter only
£19 per month sports center swim and sauna membership (for the hot showers!)
That's about it I think
ukmctc
New member
IT'S ALL ABOUT EXPECTATIONS
Sorry,didn't mean to shout!
You live on what you've got,asnore OR afloat.
You don't NEED a car,you don't need canned food with a UK LABEL( just brought Baxter's Cullen Skink back from UK
You do need the will to enjoy what you HAVE got and what you CAN afford!
Shouting is interesting but only if you answer the actual question, not interested in boat or lifestyle. What does it cost you!
For those who read the question thanks, interesting on the various amounts, an error in my quote should read £12000 not £1200.
We have worked out that this will probably be our average per year for the next couple of years to come.
ukmctc
New member
Leif-J
Member
This is very interesting for us contemplating to leave on a longer cruise in a few years from now. I am well aware of the immense variations in spendings depending on location and habits, but still it is possible to learn from other cruisers experience. Thanks for starting the thread and thanks to everyone contributing.
charles_reed
Active member
I've a boat in Greece and an house in Shropshire, spending about half my time in each - over the last 14 months it's cost me £778/month in UK and €532/month aboard.
Those are figures that are bang up-to-date, include mooring, local taxes, travel etc. but excludes the cost of the car in the UK as that's a wild card, dependent on mileage and mechanical competence.
So if you can afford to live ashore in the UK you'll be far better off, on the same income, living aboard.
Those are figures that are bang up-to-date, include mooring, local taxes, travel etc. but excludes the cost of the car in the UK as that's a wild card, dependent on mileage and mechanical competence.
So if you can afford to live ashore in the UK you'll be far better off, on the same income, living aboard.
ribrage
Active member
I checked then double checked as the numbers looked wrong but its what i pay.....
800 for 6 months on a mooring in the summer
1200 for berth in marina in the winter
800 for week ashore in summer
400 on maintenance - paint anodes etc
200 to keep dinghy in marina summer months
200 a month for food/beer on board (2400)
400 for motor bike/ old van per year ( inc insurance £110 tax £40 and fuel £15 = 200 miles on 1200cc bike)
6200/ 12 = a lot less than most of you, do i win a prize ? (corrected)
spent three years living like that on the south coast having a ball most of the time, plenty of trips in land and visiting family, certainly dont feel like i missed out on anything, seeing other peoples budgets makes me wonder if im doing it wrong ....ha ha
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tonybannister
New member
IT'S ALL ABOUT EXPECTATIONS
Sorry,didn't mean to shout!
You live on what you've got,asnore OR afloat.
You don't NEED a car,you don't need canned food with a UK LABEL( just brought Baxter's Cullen Skink back from UK
You do need the will to enjoy what you HAVE got and what you CAN afford!
Sums it up very nicely. Good thread with so many different views and difficult to disagree with any of them.
Another point to demonstrate the variables that can affect our costs is what happened to us 2 years ago. Jan had a replacement hip operation January 2 years ago. So for that summer getting in and out of a dinghy was out of the question and the danger of slipping and putting it out had to be considered. That is when we moved to Cesme marina and had an annual contract. Either that or stay in the UK to recover (no way even though we keep our flat there). Fortunately we had spent a lot in Marmaris upgrading the boat so could cut back there to compensate. She is fine now so it is back to moorings this summer.
In the last couple of years so many people we know have had to make adjustments due to economic conditions.
dslittle
Well-known member
Great resume and an inspiration to others. We are still in UK but even now we prefer entertaining and eating aboard. It is amazing how many friends can find time to spend a weekend on board who used to find it difficult to find the time previously... Can't wait to get out there with you though!!!
NornaBiron
New member
Sorry, but I think your figures are a little awry: 200 a month for food/beer = 2400 a year, taking your total nearer to 6200 per annum. You haven't mentioned fuel for bike or car either or is that included in the 400 per year? Still very cheap though!