Liveaboard choice for young newbie in London

[Sticky Fingers]

My loveable, sociable but maddening son, a 20-something art student with a great work ethic and minimal money, wants to buy a modest boat and live on a waterway in London. He's set a max budget of 15k to buy and if necessary renovate something habitable for one plus the odd mate or two (and some of them are very odd...); and 750 a month for mooring and elec. Not a houseboat or engineless hulk, he wants to be able to move it about a bit, by which I think he means, a mile or two up river once a year.

Timescale: "...next year ish..."

I know a lot about saily boats and a bit about mobos but this is way off my knowledge. So....

What type of boat might work? and,
Where and how could he find a mooring? He wants to be close to Camden (so Regents Canal) or possible St Kaths but I think that's going to be out on cost.

I thought a canal boat / widebeam might suit, or maybe a Dutch barge or steel river boat, and there's plenty about, but dunno anything about them.

Any useful info welcome. Thank you.

 

[Tranona]

Dreaming is the right word. Not a chance of getting a legit residential mooring in that area - almost at any price.

Most moorings in the canal system are controlled by the CRT (Canal and River Trust) so worth looking on their site for what might be available.

As to boats, a wide range of different types have ended up on the canals, but if the objective is in part to be able to move around a narrow beam would be best, but you won't get much for £15k. Apart from the wrecks, good liveaboard boats in the inland waterways have held their value because it is determined more by the housing market rather than the leisure market.

Your son's aspirations might be driven by the expectation of bucking the system and living in the centre of London on a downtown Birmingham budget, but those further up the food chain have got there first and driven the price up!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks. The info about the CRT a really useful link, they have a lot of content on there about London residential.

Found a couple of boats with Limehouse moorings for about 25k, mooring about 700 a month... Might be doable.

 

[nortada]

Depending on size of boat St Catherine's could be do-able.

How close to town does he want/need to be?

 

[Bru]

Just to reiterate what Tranona has already said but with input from experience and knowledge of the area and the problems (I used to be heavily involved in inland waterways politics for my sins) ... don't even think about it for a split second without a legitimate residential mooring with planning permisson etc.

Whilst at present CRT are concentrating their efforts to put an end to illegal liveaboards outside of London, partly because British Waterways left them with a massive problem after decades of little or no enforcement and they have limited resources and partly because they have been in long term discussions with the relevant local authorities to find a better solution than simply chucking the thousands of illegal liveaboards off their boats, the day will surely come in the not too distant future when the nettle is grasped

 

[Martin_J]

If he could remove the word 'buy' and just aim for 'live aboard a boat in London' then it could be a whole lot easier..

It was a long while ago when I was looking around to rent in London but we did come across a boat to rent on Regents canal.

A quick search just now came up with this..
/property-to-rent/studio-on-a-barge-boat-house-holly-lou

Some nice photos and a great write up..
The barge is slightly moving when other boats pass and create waves or when you are moving inside, otherwise - you should not feel any movement, since the canal water is quite still.
The rent includes everything: gas, electricity, water, taxes, heating, fixes. Also, it includes uncomfortable times when something is not working and needs to be fixed, but takes some time.

 

[Martin_J]

Similar seach throws up quite a few...
https://www.gumtree.com/property-to-rent/london/boat+to+rent

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks folks.

St Katherine Dock would be fine.

He's got no intention to go illegal. (at least not with any help from me).

Rental might also be OK (or indeed, maybe the only option)... we're talking about a 20+ art student here, who (despite his parents' best endeavours) is hardly ready to make a decision about what to eat tonight let alone where to live for the next N years... !

 

[Bru]

If he could remove the word 'buy' and just aim for 'live aboard a boat in London' then it could be a whole lot easier..

It was a long while ago when I was looking around to rent in London but we did come across a boat to rent on Regents canal.

A quick search just now came up with this..
/property-to-rent/studio-on-a-barge-boat-house-holly-lou

....

Which is an illegal liveaboard / illegal hire boat

Note that it "has to move every two weeks". That means it does not even have a permanent mooring, let alone a residential mooring. It is operating under a Continuous Cruising licence. And you cannot legally hire out a boat on a CC licence (for which you require a hire licence which perforce requires you to have a permanent home mooring)

Given that it is impossible for the vessel in question to be legally licenced as a hire / rental boat, it also will not be insured for hire / rental.

And further investigation of the posted Gumtree adverts turned up a virtually word for word advert for a definitely different boat so this operator has at least two (and probably more) boats that he is illegally renting out

Several of the other relevant adverts on Gumtree either explicitly state that the boat is on a Continuous Cruising licence or it is implicit in the description ("has to move every two weeks")

Caveat emptor

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Well this is instructive... ! Thank you.

 

[Martin_J]

It is... although it was thirty years ago that I was looking...

 

[Tranona]

Well this is instructive... ! Thank you.

You will enjoy the complexities related to living aboard a boat on our waterways (about which Bru knows rather a lot). Scrolling down the Thames forum will give you a taste of the issues. Although not controlled by the CRT the issues are the same,

In a way they mirror our domestic housing problems so are more severe in urban or suburban areas particularly in the south but less of a problem in the less densely populated or less economically active parts of the country.

 

[Tranona]

It is... although it was thirty years ago that I was looking...

What do they say... "The past is a different country"

30 years ago you could still buy a modest house around London for £50k and rent a flat for under £100 a week.

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

Gravesend has official res moorings, also Port Werburgh in Hoo. But as said above, forget Central London and commute if he wants to own a boat on a legally residential mooring. Limehouse Basin is full, I think South Dock also full. There are a lot of folks who have had the same idea, live cheap in Central London on the water which I started doing in the 80's, but it's all gone mad since then.
Most canal liveaboards are basically squatting with very few facilities, insoluble address/tax/council problems, towpaths are horrible crime zones, and the Grand Union Canal, + Regents, is turning into an open sewer there are so many liveaboards with no black water disposal points or even FW taps. (Not being judgemental, we did the same back in the days, but now there are 20 times more boats, and with honourable exceptions they have no interest in boaty/nautical matters). Prognosis gloomy..

 

[Sticky Fingers]

You will enjoy the complexities related to living aboard a boat on our waterways (about which Bru knows rather a lot). Scrolling down the Thames forum will give you a taste of the issues. Although not controlled by the CRT the issues are the same,

In a way they mirror our domestic housing problems so are more severe in urban or suburban areas particularly in the south but less of a problem in the less densely populated or less economically active parts of the country.

It's not for me of course but if this comes to fruition then I'm sure I will be, err, "involved"...

 

[Bru]

It was all different 30 years ago on t'cut (as us old hands know it). And genuinely without rose coloured sunglasses on, far far better by far

But that was then and this is now and my dreams of returning to the canals in my dotage, when sailing gets beyond my feeble frame, are turning to dust. Too expensive, way too busy and the bits that aren't rammed full of illegal liveaboards are jam packed with people with more money than sense, or manners (and I'm truly not being unreasonably nasty there, ...

<<< rant overload alert >>>
<<< rant overload alert >>>
<<< reset brain >>>
<<< rebooting >>>

and breath ...

 

[Bru]

You will enjoy the complexities related to living aboard a boat on our waterways (about which Bru knows rather a lot). ....

Way too much :nonchalance:

 

[CLB]

What do they say... "The past is a different country"

30 years ago you could still buy a modest house around London for £50k and rent a flat for under £100 a week.

In 1995 I had a one bed flat inside the M25 and in a London borough which was valued at £26k. That's just 23 years ago

 

[laika]

St Katherine Dock would be fine.

There's no official liveaboards at St. Kats. I heard they'd tightened up on the unofficial but perhaps someone with better knowledge can comment. It used to be pricey. It's now heinous. South Dock and Limehouse I think it's a case of buy something with an existing mooring or make friends with the berthing master to tolerate "unofficial". I've been on the waiting list for both for a residential morning for both for over 10 years.

The solution would appear to be narrow boat, continuous cruising licence and...Camden?? For an art student?? That's all a bit 40 years ago. It's all about east London now...

 

[Gumpy]

Bru when you get to feeble come and join us on the "sometimes navigable flood control system" its quiet and pleasant, when its not on SSA.