Liveaboard Base- Help, please!! What am I doing wrong?

[Rusty1]

Dear All,

I'm desperately hoping some of the compassionate among you will give me the practical know-how (that I clearly must be lacking) on how to find a viable liveaboard berth/mooring.

I've spent what feels like forever looking on the S/SW coast, from the IOW westwards, without success. I know others do it so it must be possible, but I seem to be getting precisely nowhere - and frankly, the frustration of the constant refusals is starting to drive me round the twist.

My situation is this: After years of wanting to make to break to liveaboard (and a resulting divorce - enough said) I'm finally in the position where I can actually attempt this. I've narrowed the boat search to a shortlist and made the personal and lifestyle preparations as best I can - but unless I can find a suitable accommodating berth or swinging mooring that I can use as a base, I clearly can't go any further. (I don't plan to cruise the globe. I would be happy with the Scillies, Channel Islands, France etc - certainly for the forseeable).

Am I making a mistake in being upfront with my intentions to liveaboard? I had thought this was the only fair and sensible thing to do. Although I would be low-profile and considerate I would need the cooperation of the marina/yard for things like parking/mail/facilities etc.

Advice please.

 

[Ludd]

Dear All,

I'm desperately hoping some of the compassionate among you will give me the practical know-how (that I clearly must be lacking) on how to find a viable liveaboard berth/mooring.

I've spent what feels like forever looking on the S/SW coast, from the IOW westwards, without success. I know others do it so it must be possible, but I seem to be getting precisely nowhere - and frankly, the frustration of the constant refusals is starting to drive me round the twist.

My situation is this: After years of wanting to make to break to liveaboard (and a resulting divorce - enough said) I'm finally in the position where I can actually attempt this. I've narrowed the boat search to a shortlist and made the personal and lifestyle preparations as best I can - but unless I can find a suitable accommodating berth or swinging mooring that I can use as a base, I clearly can't go any further. (I don't plan to cruise the globe. I would be happy with the Scillies, Channel Islands, France etc - certainly for the forseeable).

Am I making a mistake in being upfront with my intentions to liveaboard? I had thought this was the only fair and sensible thing to do. Although I would be low-profile and considerate I would need the cooperation of the marina/yard for things like parking/mail/facilities etc.

Advice please.

Most places have standard"NO" policy. They don't know if you're a water pikey or a genuine sailor.
Get your boat ---go sailing---arrive somewhere --suggest you might want to stay--if you fall into an acceptable category,you're in. Low profile is the key---and keep your boat sailable. You're then just spending alot of time on your boat, LIVEABOARD? MOI?

 

[highandry]

I spent a winter up the Tamar one year and I seem to remember there was at least one, maybe two places advertising swinging moorings down under the Bridge around Saltash way or on the Devon side of the river. Have you tried there? You'll need a half decent dinghy to get ashore though.

Has it got to be South and South-West coast? 'Cos that's possibly the most expensive and difficult hunting ground for such a berth.

 

[jonic]

Most places have standard"NO" policy. They don't know if you're a water pikey or a genuine sailor.
Get your boat ---go sailing---arrive somewhere --suggest you might want to stay--if you fall into an acceptable category,you're in. Low profile is the key---and keep your boat sailable. You're then just spending alot of time on your boat, LIVEABOARD? MOI?

That's about it.

 

[Sandyman]

Can understand your frustration. To my way of thinking it is nothing less than discrimination.
Local Councils have to provide parks for land lubber pikeys by law so why not having to provide berthing for the likes of us ?? Just because we choose to live on the sea why are we discriminated against ?

 

[Robin]

We were well aware of this problem when looking for liveaboard friendly marinas in the USA for when we move over there. Pretty well all the marinas have a no liveaboard policy in their rules listed on their websites, yet we knew there were plenty of people doing it.

We went to our chosen area last year on a fact finding mission, expecting to be limited on choice and also having the chicken and egg scenario of not yet having our boat there either but needing to sort out where to keep it when we do. We actually found our favoured choice marina on day one and several backup alternatives after that and all without straying very far from our start point.

The key point and I'm sure it is no different over here, is that they want to keep control of what goes on and not end up with a shanty town full of no hopers. We were talking to these people in person and could tell them what boats we were looking at and what our plans were, at the time we still owned our boat over here too so they knew we weren't dreamers. Mostly they said they allowed a few liveaboards despite the general rule of none. One said, only half jokingly, that he asked for a picture of the boat first before commenting! Many had extra monthly fees for liveaboards, around $100/month was common but some had no extra costs. Some recognised the security advantages of having liveaboards around when the others had gone home and all was quiet and several had liveaboards working in their chandlery or in one case of an IT man working from on board then running their website 'free'.

There are liveaboards in Poole that I know, but keep a low profile so I'm sure the first answer from that marina would be they don't allow it.

 

[PlanB]

If you do a search on here for an earlier thread, you'll find references to Brighton being friendly towards liveaboards. When we were in Chatham Maritime, five years ago, they would also turn a blind eye to liveaboards provided you had a proper address elsewhere for mail. Likewise St Kats. I think the answer is to find somewhere you like where there seem to be other liveaboards, be coy about living aboard and be tidy (no junk on pantalan or washing all over the place). I think the non-marina address for mail is probably a must.

 

[Tranona]

Can understand your frustration. To my way of thinking it is nothing less than discrimination.
Local Councils have to provide parks for land lubber pikeys by law so why not having to provide berthing for the likes of us ?? Just because we choose to live on the sea why are we discriminated against ?

Somewhat surprised you see yourself as a victim when you have presumably made a conscious decision to live in the way you do.

Remember that just about all marinas and moorings are private property, so it is not unreasonable that the owners should determine who they should allow on their premises. I fail to see why any government or local authority has any obligation to provide you with a mooring.

Fortunately it seems that the give and take attitude from many mooring providers seems to work and allows individuals to negotiate their own way into being a liveaboard. If it was organised and regulated perhaps the whole idea would lose some of its charm.

 

[gavin_lacey]

Smart boat, reasonably smart and polite crew (ie not filthy, unwashed and rude living on a hulk) and you will have few problems in finding blind eyes. Official residential berths are few and far between and sell for a considerable sum. Washing hanging on guardrails is an absolute no no in most marinas for UK liveaboards.

 

[Blue5]

Am I making a mistake in being upfront with my intentions to liveaboard? I had thought this was the only fair and sensible thing to do. Although I would be low-profile and considerate I would need the cooperation of the marina/yard for things like parking/mail/facilities etc.

Advice please.

Yes, the problem as said is if you ask the question you get the official answer and you have already alerted the authorities, providing you are low profile at least some of them seem to turn a blind eye.

That way if you are a bit raucous and somebody complains they can genuinely say they did not know

 

[RAI]

I think in most marinas don't notice or don't care. As long as nobody complains and you pay the mooring fees on time.

 

[Fox Morgan]

Am I making a mistake in being upfront with my intentions to liveaboard? I had thought this was the only fair and sensible thing to do. Although I would be low-profile and considerate I would need the cooperation of the marina/yard for things like parking/mail/facilities etc.

Advice please.

Rusty,
Ive lived aboard for a few years... here's my own findings/musings

when looking for a new marina or mooring spot. NEVER ever tell anyone you live on your boat as a first introduction. that can wait for later.
all marinas will say NO at first if you approach, from cold, saying you want to live there.

observe marinas or mooring areas you like... sit and watch. you will see discrete liveaboards are everywhere (almost). you just need to learn to spot them, clean boats usually but often with a few extra items necessary for "frequent visiting".

be discrete, keep a tidy ship, dont cruise/moor a jalopy.

the society generally, as it is set up the way we know it, isnt set up at all well for people who are transient or movable. you must have an address, must be traceable, must be tied into the system so you can be counted and controlled.

buy a boat you like, find a place you like, have an address somewhere convenient (ideally a regular looking residential address)
lie through your teeth to make your life apparently fit the society expected norm. no one bats an eyelid at this.

the moment you tell the truth, it causes a whole load of hassle.
what seems fair and sensible doesnt work. it drives me mad as I am an honest, hard working individual, forced to lie my way to where i want to be.

move your boat frequently. if you hop around places, it becomes easier to blend in.
staying in one place, never moving... get a mobile home or a houseboat ( stick a day sailer or cruiser on the side). its cheaper and more convenient than a fully working boat that will sit and stagnate through lack of use.

living on a swinging mooring for a first timer? wouldnt recommend it for more than just the summer. life aboard in winter in the uk is hardwork.
however, swinging moorings do give more privacy. places can either freeze over or get very rough depending on where you moor. imagine rowing/motoring a dinghy back in the pitch black to a boat moving about violently, decks covered in ice and snow, you get drenched on the way there, then you have to lug water containers around, gas bottles, diesel cans.... mmm, lovely. character building.

ive got loads more info, PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[Roaring Girl]

Our experience living aboard in the UK from 2003 to 2006 was rather more benign than some posts suggest. We were based in Brighton and Ipswich and in both cases used the marina as our address (including for the electoral roll and as our business registered address at Companies House) with the full knowledge and consent of marina management. We do keep a tidy boat, but we do at times have stuff on the pontoon, we do hang washing in the rigging etc.

Different marinas do have different policies, and some absolutely refuse - eg St Katherine's will turn a blind eye to Monday-Friday liveaboards but is absolutely opposed to UK boats using them as a mailing address. Foreign flagged boats however can and do use it for a six month winter base with no problems.

You are not liable for Council Tax if you live on a boat which can and does go sailing, which the marina can move to a different berth without your consent (a standard condition in most UK marinas) and the post is not delivered to your boat.

So if you are set on the south coast west from the Solent, you may have encountered refusals when you ask - and I gather Premier have introduced a no-liveaboards policy formally. But if you look east you will find a better welcome! Or, as people say, turn up and keep a low profile, and maintain a separate mailing address. Even in today's digital age it is extremely difficult to have no post at all.

I'd also strongly agree about not trying to live ona swinging mooring through a UK winter. Not fun!

 

[highandry]

I've spent a few winters at home on swinging moorings...not too bad down on the Tamar and Fal but if you notice the locals have webbed feet, you'll find out why if you stay the winter there..
I also wintered in Essex on a swinging mooring...with a coal stove on board. Reluctantly once a week I would emerge from my sooty little cabin, wrapped in as much clothing as possible to scrape the ice off the dinghy and crunch my way ashore. Buy my stores and make my way across the Spitzbergen like wastes back to my boat. Batten down and make offerings to the Gods for the return of Spring and ..warmth..

It is not an easy life mate, as advised above...smile nicely and find a marina..

 

[ribrage]

welcome

This is an interesting thread, your circumstances are similar to mine I initially moved onto the boat as a stop gap til all the funds were divided up and I could go look for a flat or something (hate renting) found that living on the boat suited just fine.

What Sugar Cane says on here is pretty accurate if you want to live on a swinging mooring its idylic in the summer and bloody harsh in the winter its bad enough with the crappy summers we have had.

The marinas mostly turn a blind eye to the live aboards there are a few smaller yards that will accept them but the likes of premier or MDL wont and for good cause the boats never go out they end up covered in **** and upset the other marina users who pay top dollar to "live the dream" .

Ive divide my time between a swinging mooring during the summer and a marina for the winter, there are plenty to choose from wait for the winter months and a lot of them have empty berths as the boats on them are lifted for the winter.

Im in Poole been here 3 years on board I know at least a twenty others here that are living on board a mixture of boats scattered around the harbour, its a good community spirit we all help each other .

Ive fixed engines when people have had problems and picked up groceries when its been to rough for the smaller tenders to travel in return ive had hatches repaired and the loan of a car when mine died.

PM me if you want to come here i can probably help you .

Ian

 

[tobble]

would agree with much of what's been written already, although I must say I've been up front about living aboard when approaching the marina, they have always been quite resonable. I think on both occasions they imposed a probationary period, although this was never followed up, presumeably because I didn't take the p1ss. Maybe I've been lucky.

The other thought is canal boats, although the canal network isn't very extensive (i.e. almost non existent) in the SW.

If your area includes Southampton, try Kemps on the Itchen.

Good Luck!

 

[Orla]

We moved aboard full time within 6 months of getting the boat, We delivered her from the Hamble to Inverness and spent two winters and two summer there with the full knowledge of the marina management, the management always knew it was a stop gap until our boat was updated!!!

We moved to Kip Marina for the present/past winter and declared ourselves as livaboards from the very first contact (email), the reason we chose kip was because we needed to replace our standing rigging, spray hoods, cockpit enclosure etc and the people we wanted to do these jobs were based there, also it was near to family and would give us a chance to spend some time with them over the winter months.

We are on the move again at the end of the month (would have been away at the end of March but work held me back) to Kerrera marina and we have booked in there for the year after which we will move on somewhere else, don’t no where yet.

In every case nobody has been the slightest bit concerned when we tell them we liveaboard, and as far as kip is concerned we have made some new friends within the staff who could not have done more to make us welcome during the winter months, they even moved us to a berth next to the main gate so we didn’t have to gamble as much on the icy pontoons.

We get our mail forwarded to the marina office and now and again if someone is passing they will drop it in or phone us to tell us we have mail.
But everywhere we go we make it very very clear that we will be moving on, after all that is why we live on a boat, we are an active sailing boat that can leave within an hour’s notice and go anywhere.

What better way to live than by spending the winter six months tied up nice and safe near a big city where you can catch shows, concerts ect then for the next six months head off away from the beaten track and visit the more remote destinations, away from the crowds, peace and quiet.
Whether it’s because the marinas up here are not as busy as the Solent and will not turn away business i don’t know, but they also know we are always on the move so no fear of a camp being set up….

We have never hid the fact we liveaboard, in fact Orla has become a bit of a coffee shop now with so many people knocking on the hull on the way past to their own boats, and all people we never new six months ago but will always remember now…

I wish you all the best in trying to find a place, I wonder how much is down to the areas you are looking, and I don’t think any marina would be to happy at having a liveaboard that never moved on.
Maybe look more remote, it will also be a lot cheaper

 

[highandry]

That sounds just about a perfect way to live the life. I think your comment about the location of many marinas is spot on. I come from Sussex and every summer there is a massive influx of people from other areas. They're looking for work and somewhere to live and 'on a boat' seems a good idea, and cheap in comparison.

Speaking as someone who was once homeless (the landlady did give us 12 hours notice...) so I'm not throwing rocks in the greenhouse, but not everyone looking for a berth has actually got any intention of ever moving on or indeed not venturing out of the harbour. So many Southern/South Western marinas now are very anti liveaboard.
Anyway good luck Rusty, you'll find somewhere, then just keep a polite low profile and you'll be safe.

 

[Nealo]

Very interesting thread I agree - someone mentioned the canals, I can confirm that there are a staggering number of folk living on the inland waterways if my experience is anything to go by, but it is very interesting how the authorities/marinas in the south seem to have a very different attitude than in the North. I have heard of some very draconian attutudes once you get south of birmingham so I don't find it surprising that there is a problem on the south coast but a warm welcome north of the border.
Mind you, there is one northern marina I have come across which has adopted the Basil Fawlty approach to management and might just as well have a "no riff raff" sign at the gate. It's in my home county of yorkshire too so I'm very ashamed.
I reckon you can get a good idea of the attitude of the marina towards liveaboards by the length of the list of do's and don'ts. If it's a sheet of A4 I reckon they will be pretty laid back.

 

[daveg45]

I have basically lived aboard for a year or so at an MDL marina in Devon. Although I have a mailing address the marina was happy to receive mail. The staff at Shamrock Quay know of people living aboard without any concerns. When I bought the boat a couple of years ago I looked at berthing at Haslar Marina. When I questioned the time allowed aboard (something like 7 days a month or something) I was told 'oh dont worry about that we have people living aboard here). At brixham one family where living with 2 children going to the local school. I think that started to cause problems with the marina. I have decided not to renew my contract and anchor where possible. More challenging but more rewarding.