'Lithium-ion batteries start fires'

[zoidberg]

The controversy deepens and spreads - just like a DC fire in an airport car park! There's a developing thread on the topic in Sailing Anarchy which seems to be quite well informed.... youre-not-qualified-to-have-lithium-batteries

For those with the pockets and the risk tolerance profile, here's a selective sample of what's being posted:

Lithium-ion batteries start fires. There you go, I said it. None of the manufacturers or tech acolytes want to discuss that f-word, but it is there, and it shouldn’t be left up to Joe Public to address the problem…. Trying to fluff this off by claiming that lithium batteries have not burned down many boats is hardly a ringing endorsement for the technology. To my knowledge, there is no lithium-ion-barbecue actuarial database….

...when faced with a smoldering shell of charred fiberglass, we don’t see parties eager to step forward and accept liability for the accident….Rather, all the named parties tend to step back with their hands in their pockets.


• Lithium-ion batteries need an electronic BMS (battery management system), which means another computer system on a boat. Nothing could go wrong there.

• Lithium-ion batteries must be well ventilated, and simple holes in berths aren’t adequate. So, does this mean we need a dedicated BVS (battery ventilation system)?

• Lithium-ion batteries can’t be allowed to get too hot or too cold. Maybe this means we need to install heaters in Maine boats and air-conditioning in Florida boats. Super.

• Lithium-ion batteries don’t like shock or vibration. Shock or vibration in a boat? Nah.

• The secret electrolyte sauce in most lithium batteries is flammable, so a metal enclosure would be a good idea.

• The fire from lithium batteries cannot be extinguished by conventional suppression agents, so you’ll need to figure out your own system. Vast quantities of water seem to work. So, you could install a dedicated sensor, through-hull, water pump, and flooding software. I’m sure that someone will figure out a Bluetooth-connected app so you can remotely sink your boat to prevent it from burning.
But what about LiFePO4 batteries? They are safer like Diesel is safer than Gasoline, but given the right circumstances they both can burn you to the ground.

Regarding lithium chemistry batteries, we cruisers are in a period best described as one huge “beta test"

Me? I'm staying out of this! My comprehension runs out when trying to explain AGM batteries to myself. That's about as much 21st Century energy management as I can handle.

 

[KevinV]

Yawn.

"Energy dense materials are liable to release energy if mistreated shock!"

You have to wonder how many of the doom mongers did their "research" and typing on laptops and phones - without being incinerated.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

This from Sweden
Cars
The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency this year found that there were 3.8 fires per 100,000 electric or hybrid cars in 2022, compared with 68 fires per 100,000 cars when taking all fuel types into account. However, the latter figures include arson, making comparisons tricky.20 Nov 2023

I have no opinion or knowledge about Lithium batteries. If you were to double the electric car figure above to 7.6 fires per 100,000, it still works out at .0076 chance of having a car fire per 100,000. Personally , I would find that an acceptable risk .

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think it’s a division of the anti electric car lobby. Anything to discredit the changes to the automotive industry. I do get that, with a boat, you can’t open the doors and jump out, like a car. Things must conform to higher safety standards. I’m still lead acid on the boat, though I’d love to save a few kg.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

For the non lounge dwellers, I have an electric car and love it. I’d love to go lithuim on the boat, it needs some thought, not for the lithium as much as the alternator on my Honda outboard.

 

[rgarside]

I had understood that there was a difference in risk between Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium-Iron batteries [ otherwise called LiFePO4 cells] - The Anarchist appeared to be inveighing against the former.

 

[smert]

Here's a webinar all about Lithium batteries on boats

It was hosted by an insurance company, so all those stories about Insurance companies not liking Lithium...

 

[Bouba]

How many ice cars and motorbikes have a 14v lithium ion starter battery ?

 

[Tranona]

The controversy deepens and spreads - just like a DC fire in an airport car park! There's a developing thread on the topic in Sailing Anarchy which seems to be quite well informed.... youre-not-qualified-to-have-lithium-batteries

For those with the pockets and the risk tolerance profile, here's a selective sample of what's being posted:



Me? I'm staying out of this! My comprehension runs out when trying to explain AGM batteries to myself. That's about as much 21st Century energy management as I can handle.

As ever full of half truths. Plenty of discussions on installing lithium in boats on this forum - one currently running on PBO.

The safety issues with boats (and there are some) are unrelated to those on EVs or Boeing aircraft or smartphones and other electronic devices. While there is some disagreement on how to manage them on the more sophisticated systems, often custom built, there are proven methods if using the "simple" drop in batteries that are becoming increasingly competitive price wise with the better LAs such as AGM or carbon.

Fortunately for most small to medium size sailing yachts they offer no or minimal advantage over AGMs. Like many new technologies it makes sense to start from basics of your pattern of usage to see if the new either does things better than the old or more likely whether it will allow you to do things that are difficult with your existing system.